I once met him in Bath. He and the band were due to play the Hub that evening, which was a venue I lived next door to. They had obviously spent all day drinking at diverse taverns and become disorientated. They asked me for directions, and I walked them to the supermarket car park where they’d left their van. On parting, I mumbled something about looking forward to the gig, but forgot to say “charmed to meet ya.”
I was at the same gig Jeff – I remember it as being very good, but then being pissed has probably been MES’s default state for the last 40 years.
8 November 2014
Chris The Siteowner
It is one of the most mystifying things to me that I just don’t get The Fall. I really have given them a chance, but they do nothing for me. Ah well.
8 November 2014
dickhead in quicksand
If it’s confessional time: CtSO, you’re not alone, me too.
I do like MES’s style, though, not least his inventive ways of sacking band members he’d fallen out with (almost all of them).
One of John Peel’s 65th birthday presents was the double A-side split-single acetate of Job Search and A Legend In My Time.
There’s an HMHB page on a “The Fall” fansite, but it seems to have died.
8 November 2014
Bananayogi
I always had a sort of grudging admiration for MES, but then I saw his ‘interview’ on Newsnight (?) when John Peel died. I lost a lot of respect for him that evening. Apart from his mealy mouthed and grudging comments, with his tongue flickering in and out and his collapsed face he looked like a particularly horrible lizard.
Having said that I still listen to the early stuff sometimes but there is an element of ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’ about much of the later material. People are afraid to say that much of it simply isn’t very good.
8 November 2014
bob the proofreader
Bananayogi, I agree. I still love the uncompromising roughness of their early material – in fact, most of it up to around the early 90s and “Extricate” – but somehow I lost my enthusiasm after that. Their recent output does very little for me.
Changing tack, one of the funniest lyrics I’ve ever heard is “I feel like Alan Minter. I just ate eight sheets of blotting paper.” Just typing it has got me giggling uncontrollably now.
8 November 2014
This leaden paul
Also, their 22nd album was far from ‘bongo-laced’.
9 November 2014
ANDROID, EYES Rolling
Used to be my favourite band, until a certain Birkenhead-based beat combo came along to turn my head. Still listen to a lot of the seventies and eighties stuff, though like others I’m not so keen on the last decade or so.
This Nation’s Saving Grace is still the best album ever made, mind you.
9 November 2014
Jeff dreadnought
Decade is about right, Android. The last truly great album was Fall Heads Roll, and I think that was 2005. Since then, the moments of genius have been fewer and further between, and I have to admit I’ve lost interest/patience a bit myself. Not sure about the Emperors New Clothes thing, though. More a case of fans willing to put up with the infuriating inconsistency on the basis that they are still, somehow, responsible for some of the greatest music ever made (This Nation’s Saving Grace being a good case in point).
9 November 2014
Bananayogi
Interesting – if I listen to the Fall, then it is Grotesque, Dragnet or The Early Years compilation. I’ve also got a great fondness for The Chaos Tape which I did indeed have on the original tape. It lived in my glove box and got loads of time in the cassette player of my car at the time. Over the years it was in there, due to repeated playing, less than optimal storage conditions and getting chewed up by the player a few times (to be rewound with the help of a pencil, and in desperate times repaired with a bit of Sellotape(TM), of course), the sound degraded quite a lot – but so gradually I hardly noticed it. Until I got the re-release on CD and was surprised al the way through at the sound quality, lack of drop outs, sudden cuts and stretchy bits!
i had a similar shock when I replaced my second-hand-in-the-first-place, rather scratched copy of The Greasy Truckers Party double album with the CD. Somehow all the scratches, hisses and pops had become part of the music I knew so well!
9 November 2014
ANDROID, EYES Rolling
Great version of Spectre Vs Rector on The Legendary Chaos Tape (as my CD version has it).
9 November 2014
Third Rate Les
I once read “The Fallen”, an attempt by a journalist to track down all 50+ people who’ve played for the band. It’s an extraordinary tale.
I was quite resistant to their charms for many years (I blame a long-forgotten girl who included “Hey Luciani” and “Mr Pharmacist” on a mix tape), but have succumbed in the past ten years or so, and their gig to close the very last ever night at Hammersmith Palais was one of the very best.
9 November 2014
JUST MARK
Working through the official releases, re-releases, expanded re-releases, Cog Sinister should-never-have-been-released releases and bootlegs that are better than the official releases is a full-time job for a Fall Completist.
9 November 2014
toastkid
The Fall have been my “official” favourite band since i borrowed This Nation’s Saving Grace from the library on a whim, aged 16. Fall Heads Roll was the last album that i gave much time too. The problem with Fall albums, in my opinion, is that MES’s strict adherence to the “an album every year” policy means that albums inevitably have varying amounts of filler on them. This was the case even in the “good old days” of the early-mid 80s and got increasingly problematic from the early 90s onwards, with the odd exception. Levitate is the worst example, with, i would say 1 Killer and the rest Filler. The Real New Fall LP (Formerly Country On The Click) is the last “All Killer No Filler” album.
If they did the normal “an album every few years” schedule, i think that we’d have far fewer albums, and each one would be great. But that’s just not how MES wants to work – he’s like a painter who knows that he just needs to keep working, and keep putting it out there, rather than get bogged down trying to perfect everything.
The maddening complexity of their back catalogue is, i believe, a symptom of MES’s almost unbelievably obnoxious and confrontational behaviour. He will attack and antagonise everyone he works with: he’s basically a madman. Band members will tolerate it, label bosses won’t, hence he goes from one label/publisher to another, like a care in the community case who is always looking for a new hostel which he hasn’t been barred from for smashing the furniture.
10 November 2014
GoK WAN ACOLYTE
I always think there are a lot of similarities between The Fall and HMHB – dark humour in the lyrics, a general enjoyment of the sounds words make and, an alleged “basic” musical style (not necessarily true). Where they differ for me is that MES seems a complete misanthrope where as NB57*, while he may skewer pretension, actually likes people and celebrates their absurdities.
(* I know we’re supposed to call him NB10 or whatever now, but 57 seems a much more HMHB number)
10 November 2014
Jeff Dreadnought
Interesting point about the differences/similarities between The Fall and HMHB and their respective “frontmen”. Going back to the earlier post about MES’s appearance on Newsnight: I don’t think I respected him any less after that – after all, he had been wheeled on to pay some gushing tribute to John Peel, who he’d clearly never been that close to, and he refused to go along with the hypocrisy, so fair play to him for that. In that respect, I would say that he and NB57 are probably kindred spirits. It was more the mealy-mouthed manner of his comments that jarred. Can’t help feeling that NB57 would have handled the same awkward situation with rather more tact and grace (or wisely avoided it altogether).
10 November 2014
rubber faced irritant
@CtSO although I love The Fall to bits I wouldn’t fret about your mystification. I just don’t get Bob Dylan and he’s reputedly quite a good lyricist with a more recent output that subscribes to the law of diminishing returns. Good job he can’t sue. MES’s Newsnight appearance was a car crash although it was mildly amusing the way he kept asking Gavin Esler if he was the new DJ (i.e. John Peel’s replacement). Around the same time, give or take a few years, he read the footie results on Final Score and that was a treat. My Saints supporting colleagues don’t get why I call their team “Southampton Town”.
11 November 2014
dickhead in quicksand
I just don’t get Bob Dylan and he’s reputedly quite a good lyricist
Bangs.head.repeatedly.against.wall.
OK he’s excreted large amounts of shite over the last 40 years. But his early stuff was electric electrifying.
11 November 2014
Bananayogi
Jeff – But for me that’s exactly it (and why I thought less of him).
If he’d simply said he didn’t want to do the interview because they weren’t that close – fine. Admirable even. But to take the opportunity to appear and then to behave as he did was pretty reprehensible – IMO of course.
I agree that NB+47 would have probably handled the whole thing better, but then from hearing him talk he seems like someone I’d quite like to go down the pub with. Just finding a pub MES isn’t banned from might be difficult, even if I thought I could stand the bloke for an hour or two.
However (as I said) the fact that he is a drunken, grumpy old misanthrope doesn’t take away from the fact that some of the music MES has created over the years has been spectacularly good. Just, for me, the earlier stuff was better, more surprising and less hit and miss.
11 November 2014
peter mcornithologist
What I love about this site is the constant discovery of things hitherto unknown.The Fall list, among others, The Monks as an influence. New to me but I am now intrigued by this unique band from the 60s.
11 November 2014
toastkid
The Fall have covered two Monks songs – Shut Up and Black Monk Theme. The Monks are ace, and very interesting: they were American GIs stationed in Germany who got turned into an art rock band by a couple of German svengalis, who came up with a manifesto and set of rules for them, including tonsure haircuts. There’s a documentary about them (which i’ve not seen) called Transatlantic Feedback.
11 November 2014
Jeff Dreadnought
You have a point, Bananayogi. What was he doing on Newsnight in the first place? Did he even know he was on Newsnight? Was he looking for another opportunity to smash the metaphorical furniture as per Toastkid’s excellent description?
11 November 2014
peter mcornithologist
@ Toastkid. Thanks. Tomorrow I shall be visiting the usual barber and requesting a tonsure.
12 November 2014
toastkid
A few days ago I started a group on Facebook (boo hiss etc) where we’re listening to a Fall album each day (in chronological order, weekdays only) and discussing. Just occurred to me that some of youse lot might be interested in joining.
Mountain Energei from TRNFLP(F”COTC”) is one of the finest songs of the last 2 decades. It’s converted at least one Fall sceptic that I’m aware of…
4 October 2015
Schoon
I just Googled it. It sounds OK and seems to end in the Passenger by Iggy Pop.
4 October 2015
CARRIE ANNE
Last Saturday evening, I was privileged to be introduced to Steve “Hats Off To” Hanley, and what a thoroughly bloody nice, modest bloke he is Really friendly and chatty, God only knows how he survived 20 years in The Fall. Also, his memoirs of his time in the band is quite possibly the best book about the music industry I’ve ever read.
5 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
MES’s autobiography is surprisingly readable. Not bad considering he probably sacked and replaced his ghostwriter every paragraph…
6 October 2015
Jeff Dreadnought
Steve Hanley’s excellent book led to him and Paul recently getting back together with Brix Smith to form The Extricated. I was lucky enough to see them at the 100 Club (supported by I Ludicrous of course) earlier this year. They played a set consisting entirely of old Fall tunes, and hugely enjoyable it was too – although I suppose the existence of such a band probably irks many Fall purists.
7 October 2015
toastkid
Just noticed HVO…SM’s excellent abbreviation of Trunfulp F’Cotcuh, like it. Jeff, thanks for reminding me to buy the Hanley book, it does sound excellent.
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Well, the internet loves unpronounceable acronyms…
7 October 2015
paul f
Isn’t an unpronounceable acronym an oxymoron?
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
It is, alongside being a fictional power-trio from somewhere like Winnersh or possibly Walton-on-Thames…
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Also, I’m impressed with Toastkid’s disproving of the “unpronounceable” part of that, along with added MES-esque “-uh” ending.
7 October 2015
toastkid
Not to mention the name of one of the millions of Fall compilation albums out there (mid-90s), so quite “meta” as they (people generally, not The Fall) say nowadays. Also, did you know, that it’s **only** an acronym if you pronounce it as a word, rather than a series of letters? (so, for example NASA is an acronym but FBI isn’t). Given that, an unpronounceable acronym is definitely an oxymoron.
8 October 2015
Batley’s very own… Steve malkmus
I remember a D&T project at high school to design and make an inventive charity collection box, and that’s where I learned (incompletely, apparently) about acronyms. A mate of mine decided to try to make an acronym out of “acronym” and after about 20 minutes came up with “Animal Care aRound and On the North Yorkshire Moors”. I’m afraid to say I required a hall pass to go to the loos after that.
Back on topic, I recently purchased the Twin Peaks box set from a charity shop and I agree wholeheartedly with Jeff Dreadnought’s first post. Two more on here and it’ll be top of the list.
8 October 2015
dr desperate
A clip here from last year’s ‘Louder Than Words’ literary festival in Manc, with a HMHB fan (oh, all right, it’s me) asking members of The Fall whom they’re most proud of having influenced, with particular reference to Neil, the bassist’s ‘Hats Off To Hanley’ t-shirt at 1:04:10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4wEk2bxIMY
18 March 2016
JUST MARK
If you start with the word and then form the acronym it’s a backronym. I’m always suspicious of good acronyms.
18 March 2016
TELLY SAVALAS
@Toastkid, 11/11/14
Only just discovered this thread, just thought I’d add that the Fall have actually covered FOUR Monks songs, the aforementioned ‘Shut Up’ and ‘I Hate You (Black Monk Theme I)’, but also ‘Oh How To Do Now (Black Monk Theme II)’ and ‘Higgle-dy Piggle-dy’.
19 March 2016
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Anyone else seeing them in L**ds on Friday the 13th (oo-er!) of May?
19 April 2016
andy williams
Come on your future our clutter was a great album
13 August 2016
Peter Mcornithologist
My son has persuaded me to listen more , Fabulous bass . Re Hip Priest. I welcome a thought on Purple Psychology ?
19 August 2016
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
In the laziest and most delayed gig (bad) review ever, last May they appeared to be very much just going through the motions. So unlike my beloved terriers, The Fall perhaps DESERVE to be stuck just outside the top 2 with little chance of making up any ground on the runaway leaders.
21 February 2017
Peter Mcornithologist
Re lookalikes. That lead singer is Alan Clark . Sniffer
17 August 2017
Queen of quick wit
I once had the joy of seeing The Fall play for 10 minutes before MES sacked the band on stage. In many ways, it was a more satisfying experience than watching them play a full set, a collector’s piece of a gig.
Since moving to Manchester last year I have noticed that there is a certain sort of gig where you look around like a twitcher spotting band members. Given the personnel turnover over the years, it’s not surprising that more than once there has been a workable version of The Fall in the audience.
5 October 2017
WIlliam Jeffrey
It is the combination of the sense of humour, the quirkiness, and the stubborn immovability toward anything mainstream allied to the funniness, obnoxiousness and idiocy of Mark E Smith that make The Fall so compelling. I often say to people that you find yourself laughing with him and at him at the same time. I used to find myself shouting abuse at him at gigs but loving him while I did it! For me the best period commenced with Extricate and went through to Middle Class Revolt. The early stuff is great too but sadly the later stuff isn’t up to much in my opinion. ‘She’s not up to much’ to quote MES!
16 December 2017
Chris The Siteowner
Not mentioned by name, so won’t make the “No Longer In Need Of Season Tickets” page, but we can’t let it pass without aacknowledgement. MES, RIP.
24 January 2018
hendrix-tattoo
R.I.P. Mark E Smith….
24 January 2018
EXXO
Hmm. Mad Sideys, Subbuteo and Stranraer may have to settle for the other three Champions League births now.
24 January 2018
EXXO
Berths even.
24 January 2018
EXXO
To paraphrase (wildly) one of my favourite Fall tracks, he ‘R’ in RIP is a substitute crucifix for atheists, the ‘I’ is another inquisition and the ‘P’ a heretic’s pyre no doubt.
24 January 2018
TRANSIT FULL OF KEITH
Listening to “R.O.D” (the best, Peel Session, version) on Gideon Coe’s show, and feeling pretty gutted. The band that meant more to me than any other, for many years (before belatedly discovering this nation’s other saving grace, of course).
24 January 2018
Huddersfield’s Very Own… Steve Malkmus
I’ve been playing The Fall on YouTube for about 2 hours now, and I’m surprised by how emotional I’m getting. It seems out of kilter with who MES was somehow, to be RIP-ing him, even at 60 and with the equivalent annual alcohol consumption of a small Czech town… so I won’t.
Usually when a musician goes to that great gig in the sky (apologies…) the loss one feels as a fan is in part all the music that they might’ve created had they stuck around (J. Buckley (q.v.)) or just that there’ll only ever be what little there is (Lennon, Syd Barrett). In MES’s case, the back-catalogue is SO extensive that at the age of 35 I might still never run out of The Fall.
As silver-linings go, that’s not a bad one I guess.
25 January 2018
gipton teenager
Monday -Ursula K. Le Guin. Wednesday- Mark E. Smith. It’s a good job that the world is ruled by chance and indifference or I might have thought there was a pattern here.
25 January 2018
Cream cheese and chives
I cant help but think that he would have HATED the 6.30 5 Live tribute to him. It is a really difficult listen. It sounds like the presenters have a Wikipedia entry in front of them and the researchers have scurried round looking for anyone who can spell FALL.
@HVOSM – If he has indeed gone to ‘that great gig in the sky’, odds on he’s already sacked the drummer and is now busy fiddling with the knobs on the seraphim’s amps.
25 January 2018
EXXO
Good shout John. Whenever I hear that track I think of their vast influence on all the early material.
25 January 2018
dr desperate
This may be fake news (from The Times of London), but if so I don’t really care: “The post-punk singer Mark E Smith, who died on Wednesday, used to irritate fellow musicians by fiddling with the settings on their amplifiers mid-set, I am told. The roadies came up with a solution by fitting what they called a DFA (Dynamic Field Adjustment) box to Smith’s amplifier, which they told him he could use to alter all the others. This kept Smith happy for some time, until the end of the tour when they admitted that the box wasn’t connected to anything, and that DFA actually stood for ‘Does Fu*k All’.” More reliably,from Viz: http://viz.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Screen-Shot-2014-10-03-at-16.06.28.png
26 January 2018
TRANSIT FULL OF KEITH
Some Fall-related clicking around after the recent news led to this brilliant video clip, which may ring bells with anyone who’s ever dipped a toe into the more “argumentative” recesses of the Fall Online Forum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1totDTfuMQg
(Although he is correct: Slates is best.)
6 February 2018
hendrix-tattoo
Mark Edward Smith was buried today. R.I.P….
7 February 2018
Transit full of keith
On Mastermind, next Friday 9 November, ‘MES and the Fall’ is apparently a specialist subject.
Good opportunity to shout “Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Dragnet, 1979” at the telly.
The lyrics on the box are from my favourite Fall album (track is listed as The N.W.R.A.). As such, they are seared in my psyche. Not sure, in this context, what they have to do with the price of fish. Nevertheless they are:
The Arndale had been razed Shop staff knocked off their ladders Security guards hung from moving escalators
Make of it what you will
22 March 2019
transit full of keith
Lisa Stansfield got off with Mark E Smith at Barry White’s 50th birthday party. True story (according to “Funky Si” Wolstonecroft).
Jeff Dreadnought
Always different, always the same. Mark E. Smith looks uncannily like The Man From Another Place out of Twin Peaks these days.
I once met him in Bath. He and the band were due to play the Hub that evening, which was a venue I lived next door to. They had obviously spent all day drinking at diverse taverns and become disorientated. They asked me for directions, and I walked them to the supermarket car park where they’d left their van. On parting, I mumbled something about looking forward to the gig, but forgot to say “charmed to meet ya.”
8 November 2014
John AndErson
Much has been gleaned here…
8 November 2014
ANDROID, EYES Rolling
I was at the same gig Jeff – I remember it as being very good, but then being pissed has probably been MES’s default state for the last 40 years.
8 November 2014
Chris The Siteowner
It is one of the most mystifying things to me that I just don’t get The Fall. I really have given them a chance, but they do nothing for me. Ah well.
8 November 2014
dickhead in quicksand
If it’s confessional time: CtSO, you’re not alone, me too.
I do like MES’s style, though, not least his inventive ways of sacking band members he’d fallen out with (almost all of them).
One of John Peel’s 65th birthday presents was the double A-side split-single acetate of Job Search and A Legend In My Time.
There’s an HMHB page on a “The Fall” fansite, but it seems to have died.
8 November 2014
Bananayogi
I always had a sort of grudging admiration for MES, but then I saw his ‘interview’ on Newsnight (?) when John Peel died. I lost a lot of respect for him that evening. Apart from his mealy mouthed and grudging comments, with his tongue flickering in and out and his collapsed face he looked like a particularly horrible lizard.
Having said that I still listen to the early stuff sometimes but there is an element of ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’ about much of the later material. People are afraid to say that much of it simply isn’t very good.
8 November 2014
bob the proofreader
Bananayogi, I agree. I still love the uncompromising roughness of their early material – in fact, most of it up to around the early 90s and “Extricate” – but somehow I lost my enthusiasm after that. Their recent output does very little for me.
Changing tack, one of the funniest lyrics I’ve ever heard is “I feel like Alan Minter. I just ate eight sheets of blotting paper.” Just typing it has got me giggling uncontrollably now.
8 November 2014
This leaden paul
Also, their 22nd album was far from ‘bongo-laced’.
9 November 2014
ANDROID, EYES Rolling
Used to be my favourite band, until a certain Birkenhead-based beat combo came along to turn my head. Still listen to a lot of the seventies and eighties stuff, though like others I’m not so keen on the last decade or so.
This Nation’s Saving Grace is still the best album ever made, mind you.
9 November 2014
Jeff dreadnought
Decade is about right, Android. The last truly great album was Fall Heads Roll, and I think that was 2005. Since then, the moments of genius have been fewer and further between, and I have to admit I’ve lost interest/patience a bit myself.
Not sure about the Emperors New Clothes thing, though. More a case of fans willing to put up with the infuriating inconsistency on the basis that they are still, somehow, responsible for some of the greatest music ever made (This Nation’s Saving Grace being a good case in point).
9 November 2014
Bananayogi
Interesting – if I listen to the Fall, then it is Grotesque, Dragnet or The Early Years compilation. I’ve also got a great fondness for The Chaos Tape which I did indeed have on the original tape. It lived in my glove box and got loads of time in the cassette player of my car at the time. Over the years it was in there, due to repeated playing, less than optimal storage conditions and getting chewed up by the player a few times (to be rewound with the help of a pencil, and in desperate times repaired with a bit of Sellotape(TM), of course), the sound degraded quite a lot – but so gradually I hardly noticed it. Until I got the re-release on CD and was surprised al the way through at the sound quality, lack of drop outs, sudden cuts and stretchy bits!
i had a similar shock when I replaced my second-hand-in-the-first-place, rather scratched copy of The Greasy Truckers Party double album with the CD. Somehow all the scratches, hisses and pops had become part of the music I knew so well!
9 November 2014
ANDROID, EYES Rolling
Great version of Spectre Vs Rector on The Legendary Chaos Tape (as my CD version has it).
9 November 2014
Third Rate Les
I once read “The Fallen”, an attempt by a journalist to track down all 50+ people who’ve played for the band. It’s an extraordinary tale.
I was quite resistant to their charms for many years (I blame a long-forgotten girl who included “Hey Luciani” and “Mr Pharmacist” on a mix tape), but have succumbed in the past ten years or so, and their gig to close the very last ever night at Hammersmith Palais was one of the very best.
9 November 2014
JUST MARK
Working through the official releases, re-releases, expanded re-releases, Cog Sinister should-never-have-been-released releases and bootlegs that are better than the official releases is a full-time job for a Fall Completist.
9 November 2014
toastkid
The Fall have been my “official” favourite band since i borrowed This Nation’s Saving Grace from the library on a whim, aged 16. Fall Heads Roll was the last album that i gave much time too. The problem with Fall albums, in my opinion, is that MES’s strict adherence to the “an album every year” policy means that albums inevitably have varying amounts of filler on them. This was the case even in the “good old days” of the early-mid 80s and got increasingly problematic from the early 90s onwards, with the odd exception. Levitate is the worst example, with, i would say 1 Killer and the rest Filler. The Real New Fall LP (Formerly Country On The Click) is the last “All Killer No Filler” album.
If they did the normal “an album every few years” schedule, i think that we’d have far fewer albums, and each one would be great. But that’s just not how MES wants to work – he’s like a painter who knows that he just needs to keep working, and keep putting it out there, rather than get bogged down trying to perfect everything.
The maddening complexity of their back catalogue is, i believe, a symptom of MES’s almost unbelievably obnoxious and confrontational behaviour. He will attack and antagonise everyone he works with: he’s basically a madman. Band members will tolerate it, label bosses won’t, hence he goes from one label/publisher to another, like a care in the community case who is always looking for a new hostel which he hasn’t been barred from for smashing the furniture.
10 November 2014
GoK WAN ACOLYTE
I always think there are a lot of similarities between The Fall and HMHB – dark humour in the lyrics, a general enjoyment of the sounds words make and, an alleged “basic” musical style (not necessarily true). Where they differ for me is that MES seems a complete misanthrope where as NB57*, while he may skewer pretension, actually likes people and celebrates their absurdities.
(* I know we’re supposed to call him NB10 or whatever now, but 57 seems a much more HMHB number)
10 November 2014
Jeff Dreadnought
Interesting point about the differences/similarities between The Fall and HMHB and their respective “frontmen”.
Going back to the earlier post about MES’s appearance on Newsnight: I don’t think I respected him any less after that – after all, he had been wheeled on to pay some gushing tribute to John Peel, who he’d clearly never been that close to, and he refused to go along with the hypocrisy, so fair play to him for that. In that respect, I would say that he and NB57 are probably kindred spirits. It was more the mealy-mouthed manner of his comments that jarred. Can’t help feeling that NB57 would have handled the same awkward situation with rather more tact and grace (or wisely avoided it altogether).
10 November 2014
rubber faced irritant
@CtSO although I love The Fall to bits I wouldn’t fret about your mystification. I just don’t get Bob Dylan and he’s reputedly quite a good lyricist with a more recent output that subscribes to the law of diminishing returns. Good job he can’t sue. MES’s Newsnight appearance was a car crash although it was mildly amusing the way he kept asking Gavin Esler if he was the new DJ (i.e. John Peel’s replacement). Around the same time, give or take a few years, he read the footie results on Final Score and that was a treat. My Saints supporting colleagues don’t get why I call their team “Southampton Town”.
11 November 2014
dickhead in quicksand
Bangs.head.repeatedly.against.wall.
OK he’s excreted large amounts of shite over the last 40 years. But his early stuff was electric electrifying.
11 November 2014
Bananayogi
Jeff – But for me that’s exactly it (and why I thought less of him).
If he’d simply said he didn’t want to do the interview because they weren’t that close – fine. Admirable even. But to take the opportunity to appear and then to behave as he did was pretty reprehensible – IMO of course.
I agree that NB+47 would have probably handled the whole thing better, but then from hearing him talk he seems like someone I’d quite like to go down the pub with. Just finding a pub MES isn’t banned from might be difficult, even if I thought I could stand the bloke for an hour or two.
However (as I said) the fact that he is a drunken, grumpy old misanthrope doesn’t take away from the fact that some of the music MES has created over the years has been spectacularly good. Just, for me, the earlier stuff was better, more surprising and less hit and miss.
11 November 2014
peter mcornithologist
What I love about this site is the constant discovery of things hitherto unknown.The Fall list, among others, The Monks as an influence. New to me but I am now intrigued by this unique band from the 60s.
11 November 2014
toastkid
The Fall have covered two Monks songs – Shut Up and Black Monk Theme. The Monks are ace, and very interesting: they were American GIs stationed in Germany who got turned into an art rock band by a couple of German svengalis, who came up with a manifesto and set of rules for them, including tonsure haircuts. There’s a documentary about them (which i’ve not seen) called Transatlantic Feedback.
11 November 2014
Jeff Dreadnought
You have a point, Bananayogi. What was he doing on Newsnight in the first place? Did he even know he was on Newsnight? Was he looking for another opportunity to smash the metaphorical furniture as per Toastkid’s excellent description?
11 November 2014
peter mcornithologist
@ Toastkid. Thanks. Tomorrow I shall be visiting the usual barber and requesting a tonsure.
12 November 2014
toastkid
A few days ago I started a group on Facebook (boo hiss etc) where we’re listening to a Fall album each day (in chronological order, weekdays only) and discussing. Just occurred to me that some of youse lot might be interested in joining.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1584625498420535/
7 January 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Mountain Energei from TRNFLP(F”COTC”) is one of the finest songs of the last 2 decades. It’s converted at least one Fall sceptic that I’m aware of…
4 October 2015
Schoon
I just Googled it. It sounds OK and seems to end in the Passenger by Iggy Pop.
4 October 2015
CARRIE ANNE
Last Saturday evening, I was privileged to be introduced to Steve “Hats Off To” Hanley, and what a thoroughly bloody nice, modest bloke he is Really friendly and chatty, God only knows how he survived 20 years in The Fall. Also, his memoirs of his time in the band is quite possibly the best book about the music industry I’ve ever read.
5 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
MES’s autobiography is surprisingly readable. Not bad considering he probably sacked and replaced his ghostwriter every paragraph…
6 October 2015
Jeff Dreadnought
Steve Hanley’s excellent book led to him and Paul recently getting back together with Brix Smith to form The Extricated. I was lucky enough to see them at the 100 Club (supported by I Ludicrous of course) earlier this year. They played a set consisting entirely of old Fall tunes, and hugely enjoyable it was too – although I suppose the existence of such a band probably irks many Fall purists.
7 October 2015
toastkid
Just noticed HVO…SM’s excellent abbreviation of Trunfulp F’Cotcuh, like it. Jeff, thanks for reminding me to buy the Hanley book, it does sound excellent.
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Well, the internet loves unpronounceable acronyms…
7 October 2015
paul f
Isn’t an unpronounceable acronym an oxymoron?
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
It is, alongside being a fictional power-trio from somewhere like Winnersh or possibly Walton-on-Thames…
7 October 2015
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Also, I’m impressed with Toastkid’s disproving of the “unpronounceable” part of that, along with added MES-esque “-uh” ending.
7 October 2015
toastkid
Not to mention the name of one of the millions of Fall compilation albums out there (mid-90s), so quite “meta” as they (people generally, not The Fall) say nowadays. Also, did you know, that it’s **only** an acronym if you pronounce it as a word, rather than a series of letters? (so, for example NASA is an acronym but FBI isn’t). Given that, an unpronounceable acronym is definitely an oxymoron.
8 October 2015
Batley’s very own… Steve malkmus
I remember a D&T project at high school to design and make an inventive charity collection box, and that’s where I learned (incompletely, apparently) about acronyms. A mate of mine decided to try to make an acronym out of “acronym” and after about 20 minutes came up with “Animal Care aRound and On the North Yorkshire Moors”. I’m afraid to say I required a hall pass to go to the loos after that.
Back on topic, I recently purchased the Twin Peaks box set from a charity shop and I agree wholeheartedly with Jeff Dreadnought’s first post.
Two more on here and it’ll be top of the list.
8 October 2015
dr desperate
A clip here from last year’s ‘Louder Than Words’ literary festival in Manc, with a HMHB fan (oh, all right, it’s me) asking members of The Fall whom they’re most proud of having influenced, with particular reference to Neil, the bassist’s ‘Hats Off To Hanley’ t-shirt at 1:04:10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4wEk2bxIMY
18 March 2016
JUST MARK
If you start with the word and then form the acronym it’s a backronym. I’m always suspicious of good acronyms.
18 March 2016
TELLY SAVALAS
@Toastkid, 11/11/14
Only just discovered this thread, just thought I’d add that the Fall have actually covered FOUR Monks songs, the aforementioned ‘Shut Up’ and ‘I Hate You (Black Monk Theme I)’, but also ‘Oh How To Do Now (Black Monk Theme II)’ and ‘Higgle-dy Piggle-dy’.
19 March 2016
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
Anyone else seeing them in L**ds on Friday the 13th (oo-er!) of May?
19 April 2016
andy williams
Come on
your future our clutter was a great album
13 August 2016
Peter Mcornithologist
My son has persuaded me to listen more , Fabulous bass . Re Hip Priest. I welcome a thought on Purple Psychology ?
19 August 2016
Huddersfield’s very own… Steve malkmus
In the laziest and most delayed gig (bad) review ever, last May they appeared to be very much just going through the motions. So unlike my beloved terriers, The Fall perhaps DESERVE to be stuck just outside the top 2 with little chance of making up any ground on the runaway leaders.
21 February 2017
Peter Mcornithologist
Re lookalikes. That lead singer is Alan Clark . Sniffer
17 August 2017
Queen of quick wit
I once had the joy of seeing The Fall play for 10 minutes before MES sacked the band on stage. In many ways, it was a more satisfying experience than watching them play a full set, a collector’s piece of a gig.
Since moving to Manchester last year I have noticed that there is a certain sort of gig where you look around like a twitcher spotting band members. Given the personnel turnover over the years, it’s not surprising that more than once there has been a workable version of The Fall in the audience.
5 October 2017
WIlliam Jeffrey
It is the combination of the sense of humour, the quirkiness, and the stubborn immovability toward anything mainstream allied to the funniness, obnoxiousness and idiocy of Mark E Smith that make The Fall so compelling. I often say to people that you find yourself laughing with him and at him at the same time. I used to find myself shouting abuse at him at gigs but loving him while I did it! For me the best period commenced with Extricate and went through to Middle Class Revolt. The early stuff is great too but sadly the later stuff isn’t up to much in my opinion. ‘She’s not up to much’ to quote MES!
16 December 2017
Chris The Siteowner
Not mentioned by name, so won’t make the “No Longer In Need Of Season Tickets” page, but we can’t let it pass without aacknowledgement. MES, RIP.
24 January 2018
hendrix-tattoo
R.I.P. Mark E Smith….
24 January 2018
EXXO
Hmm. Mad Sideys, Subbuteo and Stranraer may have to settle for the other three Champions League births now.
24 January 2018
EXXO
Berths even.
24 January 2018
EXXO
To paraphrase (wildly) one of my favourite Fall tracks, he ‘R’ in RIP is a substitute crucifix for atheists, the ‘I’ is another inquisition and the ‘P’ a heretic’s pyre no doubt.
24 January 2018
TRANSIT FULL OF KEITH
Listening to “R.O.D” (the best, Peel Session, version) on Gideon Coe’s show, and feeling pretty gutted. The band that meant more to me than any other, for many years (before belatedly discovering this nation’s other saving grace, of course).
24 January 2018
Huddersfield’s Very Own… Steve Malkmus
I’ve been playing The Fall on YouTube for about 2 hours now, and I’m surprised by how emotional I’m getting. It seems out of kilter with who MES was somehow, to be RIP-ing him, even at 60 and with the equivalent annual alcohol consumption of a small Czech town… so I won’t.
Usually when a musician goes to that great gig in the sky (apologies…) the loss one feels as a fan is in part all the music that they might’ve created had they stuck around (J. Buckley (q.v.)) or just that there’ll only ever be what little there is (Lennon, Syd Barrett). In MES’s case, the back-catalogue is SO extensive that at the age of 35 I might still never run out of The Fall.
As silver-linings go, that’s not a bad one I guess.
25 January 2018
gipton teenager
Monday -Ursula K. Le Guin. Wednesday- Mark E. Smith. It’s a good job that the world is ruled by chance and indifference or I might have thought there was a pattern here.
25 January 2018
Cream cheese and chives
I cant help but think that he would have HATED the 6.30 5 Live tribute to him. It is a really difficult listen. It sounds like the presenters have a Wikipedia entry in front of them and the researchers have scurried round looking for anyone who can spell FALL.
25 January 2018
dr desperate
Listening to my old Fall singles, it strikes me that ‘Fiery Jack’ (from which Neil, the bassist, played a snippet at Ilminster in 2014) bears an uncanny resemblance to ‘Quality Janitor’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L60GziFpdA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU-LDzOZQzo
25 January 2018
Transit Full of keith
@HVOSM – If he has indeed gone to ‘that great gig in the sky’, odds on he’s already sacked the drummer and is now busy fiddling with the knobs on the seraphim’s amps.
25 January 2018
EXXO
Good shout John. Whenever I hear that track I think of their vast influence on all the early material.
25 January 2018
dr desperate
This may be fake news (from The Times of London), but if so I don’t really care:
“The post-punk singer Mark E Smith, who died on Wednesday, used to irritate fellow musicians by fiddling with the settings on their amplifiers mid-set, I am told. The roadies came up with a solution by fitting what they called a DFA (Dynamic Field Adjustment) box to Smith’s amplifier, which they told him he could use to alter all the others. This kept Smith happy for some time, until the end of the tour when they admitted that the box wasn’t connected to anything, and that DFA actually stood for ‘Does Fu*k All’.”
More reliably,from Viz:
http://viz.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Screen-Shot-2014-10-03-at-16.06.28.png
26 January 2018
TRANSIT FULL OF KEITH
Some Fall-related clicking around after the recent news led to this brilliant video clip, which may ring bells with anyone who’s ever dipped a toe into the more “argumentative” recesses of the Fall Online Forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1totDTfuMQg
(Although he is correct: Slates is best.)
6 February 2018
hendrix-tattoo
Mark Edward Smith was buried today.
R.I.P….
7 February 2018
Transit full of keith
On Mastermind, next Friday 9 November, ‘MES and the Fall’ is apparently a specialist subject.
Good opportunity to shout “Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Hip Priest! Dragnet, 1979” at the telly.
1 November 2018
EXXO
FaceAche has its uses. Particularly Karl’s page, as has been noted.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157159562993343&set=pcb.10157159569333343&type=3&theater
If anyone can make out the writing on the ‘The North will Rise Again’ board, or find a better image of it, let us know.
22 March 2019
Excavated Rita
The lyrics on the box are from my favourite Fall album (track is listed as The N.W.R.A.). As such, they are seared in my psyche. Not sure, in this context, what they have to do with the price of fish. Nevertheless they are:
The Arndale had been razed
Shop staff knocked off their ladders
Security guards hung from moving escalators
Make of it what you will
22 March 2019
transit full of keith
Lisa Stansfield got off with Mark E Smith at Barry White’s 50th birthday party. True story (according to “Funky Si” Wolstonecroft).
27 September 2020