Welcome to the The Lux Familiar Cup 2015. Four years on from our previous event, it’s time to see if we still have the same favourite songs.
The Baguette Dilemma (Qualifying) Round: The Voting
(See discussion on this page below). In which we decide to have a massive qualifying round where voters get randomly-selected pairs of songs. And what everyone was thinking as they voted.
The Baguette Dilemma (Qualifying) Round: The Results
In which we reveal the massive table of how the 192 songs performed in the head-to-heads, and which 32 songs qualified for the next round. We then devise an ingenious method of drawing the last 32.
The Last 32: The Voting
In which the draw for the last 32 is revealed, and the real agonising decisions begin. “Some tasty fixtures here”, observes Half Man Half Bike. “I just can’t watch!” says Loop.
The Last 32: The Results
In which we reveal the songs which went to all the effort of getting through the qualifying round, only to fall at the next hurdle. One or two surprises in there.
The Last 16: The Voting
In which we shadowed the real draw for for the FA Cup 2nd Round to make our own lineup. “I’d say most of those are too close to call”, says Gok Wan Acolyte.
The Last 16: The Results
In which we reveal the songs which made it through to the quarter-finals, and the plucky eight which did so well to get this far, really they did.
Quarter Finals: The Voting
In which we devise an even more fiendishly over-complex method of pulling balls out of a bag. “Hearts are going to be broken at every turn from hereon in”, says Two Fat Feet.
Quarter Finals: The Results
In which we realise that every song is a winner, just for taking part. But who’d want to go go out at this stage? Find out which four songs reached the semi-finals.
Semi Finals: The Voting
In which we go to a neutral venue, of course, but not Wembley. Just like in the old days. Featuring an outstanding preview by Paddy Shennan. Probably.
Semi Finals: The Results
In which two great songs fall by the wayside at that most heartbreaking of moments. “Feels like the final everyone wanted has been drawn a round early”, says Kendo Nagasaki.
The Final: The Voting
“It is the UK’s new national anthem as far as I’m concerned” vs “Simply genius couplet after genius couplet – almost every line is a gem”. It’s Shite vs Light. Over to you…
The Final: The Result
In which we had a clear winner, but it didn’t go to form, based on the Baguette Dilemma round…
EXXO
Votes for ‘Chatteris’ to be accompanied by a sound effect going ‘jolly good show’, ‘that’s the spirit’, ‘rhyming couplets, ra ra ra’, etc. (it’ll win anyway).
7 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
It didn’t win last time, sourpuss.
7 September 2015
WARDEN HODGES
Will it get a Wikipedia mention?
Bring it on.
7 September 2015
John anderson
And I wondered but I doubted if they would ever bring back the Lux Familiar Cup.
7 September 2015
gok wan acolyte
If we’re going to revive the competition then surely we need to raise again the question of whether it’s “Lux Familiar” (which doesn’t mean anything?) or “Looks Familiar” (which is pronounced Lux in a Scouse accent). It surely is a reference to the crap Dennis Norden daytime TV show of the 70s, which showed old and often forgotten 1930s/40s entertainers which the panellists such as Arthur Askey (qv) tried to recall. The joke in the line being that the cup “Looks Familiar” – it being something that the supporters have a vague idea of what it is but can’t quite remember, since it is that long since they won anything.
But on the basis that I will be in a minority of one and it will remain “Lux Familiar”, my prediction is an ACP v Mileage Chart final, but there’s always more intrigue in the pool games.
7 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
I don’t really care what the format is so long as there’s a Level Playing Field, and lots of brown-envelope bungs for CtSO and the regulars on this site. There’s often more intrigue in the award process.
I favour a scheme where the final 64 from last time are seeded into the later stages, to reduce the possibility of nasty collisions in the early rounds. I also favour straight knockout over pools (which could get to feel interminable), even if that eliminates the tactical possibilities of throwing a match/bribing people in the later stages of a pool to avoid a dangerous opponent in the next round. Great drama and no pressure on CtSO.
I’ve always heard it as “Lux Familiar Cup”, for the pun on “looks” and Port Sunlight, and very possibly also on the crap TV show which GWA remembers but which I’m glad I don’t.
8 September 2015
paul f
A straight knockout would make for a very long running qualifiers/first round. I liked the format last time which ensured a wide spread of material in the “business end” of the tournament.
8 September 2015
brumbiscuit
Surely such a competition deserves a fitting trophy? Mind you, to whom and when it would be presented is another matter…
8 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
GWA: I’d always been uneasy with “Lux Familiar” too (and TBH I still am, because it just sounds plain odd), but SGD, A Shropshire Lad put this one to bed in 2010 by looking it up in the “official lyrics book”, which I’ve never seen but which I’m assured exists. Maybe one of you with a copy could give us a scan (although someone will probably now say that’s already been done and is on this site somewhere!).
8 September 2015
peter mcornithologist
With so many brilliant tracks, how on earth does one choose the winner? I’ve changed my mind 7 times today about which is my favourite.
8 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
That’s why knockout tournaments work so well in the face of often insurmountable decisions. Mrs CtSO and I set one up to choose a name for CtSO Jnr., I kid you not. She does put up with a lot. Technically, the winner should always be the correct answer, although the runner-up quite possibly won’t be the second-best. There are ways of addressing that though.
By the way, if there are any software developers out there who are looking for a good idea, combining a knockout tournament generator like this with polling software like this is something which I think would have a really big market. And be quick because we need it for the LFC.
8 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
@CtSO – An “official lyrics book”? Doesn’t that mean this site is, er, rendered pointless? All the
hoursminutes I’ve spent on here pondering the lyrics when I could have been doing something better instead…(It was published many years ago, so doesn’t feature many songs, and its accuracy has been questioned – CtSO)
8 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
Sorry, but I haven’t got a scanner. I can’t be arsed at looking through the old stuff but is LUX not years old soap powder? I think me Gran washed her bloomers with it.
8 September 2015
nigel
didn’t that make the bread taste funny?
8 September 2015
EXXO
It isn’t. Anyway, the /^/ phoneme doesn’t even exist in a real Scouse accent, whereas Nigel uses a version of that one twice in naming this competition. A Scouser would use something closer to /ʊ/ as in /bʊks/ – which would rhyme for him with ‘looks’ and ‘Lux’. But not for Nigel in this song.
9 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
While I wouldn’t always quote Wikipedia as a reliable source, this would coincide with my own experience of 30+ years in Liverpool
“Oddly enough words such as ‘took’ and ‘look’, unlike some other accents in northern towns, revert to the type and are pronounced ‘tuck’ and ‘luck’. Not all Liverpudlians are brought up to speak with this variation but this does not make it any less Scouse.”
Look=Luck so Looks=Lucks (or Lux)
9 September 2015
brumbiscuit
Lux still available Down Under: http://shop.coles.com.au/online/national/lux-soap-powder-flakes
9 September 2015
toastkid
Seems to me that “looks” is pronounced the same as “lux” in pretty much any British accent.
9 September 2015
eric olthwaite
Paulie posted a scan on the Friday Night and the Gates Are Low thread.
Thanks – CtSO. Here it is folks.
9 September 2015
EXXO
There isn’t just one fixed accent in any region though, as you slide through the complex cross-overs of geography, education, family and outside influences.
The /ʊ/ versus /ʌ/ thing in northern areas is a really interesting one. I have taught sessions about this on linguistics-related courses, but will try not to let that stop me making sense.
Whereas the /ɑ:/ versus /æ/ thing is fixed, the /ʊ/ versus /ʌ/ thing isn’t.
Any northerner pronouncing ‘class’, ‘grass’, ‘bath’ or ‘path’ with an /a:/ sounds either (i) southern, or (ii) idiotically posh, or (iii) both. You couldn’t survive in a northern state school saying them that way, as a teacher or student, without the piss being well and truly ripped.
On the other hand, whereas most northern ‘working class’ accents don’t even include the /ʌ/ vowel, and those who want to pronounce ‘bus’ and ‘cup’ in a mock-southern way often have to try to learn it like a foreign sound, and many just can’t seem to do so, nevertheless those of us who through our families, education, and media influence do use the /ʌ/ vowel for those words would never have our northern-ness questioned, nor the piss taken. It’s quite normal for (for want of a better, less snobbish word) “educated” northerners to use it. On Merseyside, Lancashire, Yorkshire etc the “grammar school/BBC-influenced” pron is usually /lʊks/ for “looks familiar” and /lʌks/ in the word “luxury” or the soap, but of course it varies, and if I happened to use that word at the match, say, i would probably switch to /lʊkʃəri:/
The Wirral itself is a hotch-potch in accent just as much as in every other respect , one of those places where some people living next door to people with a particular accent can despise them for having that accent but at the same time be very influenced by it, or vice versa, and code-switching goes on all the time, and that’s before we’ve even started on the different ‘voices’ in the songs.
9 September 2015
Mr galbraith
On the basis that I never call cup competitions by their correct names anyway (I’m still using Carling and Freight Rover) then I’m not in any way fussed by the nomenclature. Far more important to get the structure right so that the cream rises to the top (Jeff).
9 September 2015
SIMON P
Pedantically, 192 is not massively helpful.
192 -> 96 -> 48 -> 24 -> 12 -> 6 -> 3
You’d need to get down to 128 for a straight knockout.
I think that the 2011 format is probably better, but then my name’s not Sepp.
9 September 2015
EXXO
Not helpful? You haven’t organised many imaginary knock-out competitions have you Simon? 64 v 64 in a preliminary round, to then play the other 64 in the ’round of 128′ will have occurred within seconds of Chris’ post to anyone who spent his early childhood picking football team names out of a box and then rolling dice for a couple of hours.
But then countless other delightful combinations will have emerged within seconds.
10 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
Ok, if it’s in the official lyric book then I will concede defeat…though “Looks Familiar” will always make more sense to me
10 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
Were you playing Pokkit-Socca, Exxo?. I also liked Howzat and for some bizarre reason, Subutteo Angling. The smell of the P-S pitch used to give me a headache.
10 September 2015
mister tubbs
Is there any way of preventing the same person from voting more than once for the same song? I seem to recall at the last Lux Familiar Cup, there was one song that punched well above its weight, amidst suggestions of an on-line campaign to try and fix the result
10 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
Shit, this is more bent than the Eurovision Song Contest.
10 September 2015
paul f
Surely we are working on the basis that, almost by definition, the sporting ethics of a Half Man Half Biscuit fan are going to be beyond reproach.
10 September 2015
paul f
Subbuteo Angling? And here was me thinking I knew all of the ephemera of the Subbuteo world. Back to Peter Upton’s time-eating website for more research for me!
http://www.peter-upton.co.uk/sports.htm#Angling
10 September 2015
EXXO
Got to love the understatement from that link Paul, of: “Occasionally, the ball-bearing gets stuck inside the dicer, and I’m not convinced it is as random as using dice would be.”
Certainly wasn’t 😉
Decent game though. Many happy hours (and until this year, the only barbel I’d ever caught were Subbuteo barbel).
10 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
I caught my first Pike on Subbuteo Angling, It was a 30 pounder, on worm.
10 September 2015
EXXO
I had my p/b pike the other day. On pikelet. Which in turn had taken me meat on the retrieve (ooh ouch, no, Mrs, please!)
Anyway, talking of electoral shenanigans, well played to Corbyn’s travelling army of synthetic supporters (that’s not well played as in making Labour unelectable, that’s just well played for enabling me to sing), and they were singing:
This isn’t New Labour Mr. Corbyn,
This isn’t New Labour Mr. Corbyn,
This isn’t New Labour Mr. Corbyn,
I’m over there ‘cos this news I’m still absorbin’.
10 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
So… the obvious knockout format, as Exxo points out, is 128 > (64 + 64) > 64 > 32 > 16 > 8 > 4 > 2, which gives us 191 matches. I suppose we could run one a day for six months, but I think it might prove tiresome.
An alternative might be to have 64 mini-groups of 3, with 1 qualifying, giving us 192 > 64 > 32 > 16 > 8 > 4 > 2 which is 127 matches (if a group counts as one match). A lot more manageable. Or 32 more UEFA-like groups of 6, randomly-drawn but perhaps seeded, giving us 192 > 32 > 16 > 8 > 4 > 2 and just 63 matches.
The equivalent of last time’s one-album-per-group stage, feeding in to a last 32, would presumably have 13 single-album groups generating 26 qualifiers, plus maybe 4 more from the EPs and other non-album material, and then a couple of unlucky losers. That’d give us 192 > 32 > 16 > 8 > 4 > 2 again, but just 46 matches. It worked fairly well before, but I did think it sad that what ended up as the 3rd and 4th most popular songs on most albums only appeared on a voting form once. Some cracking songs never really got a look-in.
10 September 2015
Dr Desperate
192, a very neat number indeed for those of a mathematical bent.
One immediately notes, of course, that all 9 digits appear in the equality 192 + 384 = 576, which involves 3 multiples of 192.
10 September 2015
paul f
I think the qualifying groups of 3 followed by straight knockout makes the most sense. With perhaps application of UEFA style coefficients through the 2011 final ranking to identify seeds?
11 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
First time I played Subbuteo Angling the bailiff turfed me out for flicking my casts the wrong way.
11 September 2015
Dirk Hofman
Groups of three sounds good CtSO, if picked away from an album based base…tidy group stages not unlike the World Korfball Championship..
11 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
Key question: how many rounds/matches would work best? Decide that, and pick a format to suit. (One extreme: one round of voting on all 192 songs: yawn. The other: the classic 192 team knockout: 160 matches by my count, including the ever-enthralling 3rd/4th place play-off, but ignoring replays and the idea of two-leg fixtures.)
I’m currently musing on largish first-round groups (6 or 8 songs); with the top 2 qualifying automatically for the next round, and then relaxing with cool drinks and WAGs and losing form while the next-most-popular songs fight out a brutal repechage to make the number up to 64. Then, another group stage to determine the final 16; finally, head-to-head knockout.
12 September 2015
EXXO
I propose that out of respect for the A-Z, which might well get neglected during the magic of the cup, we wait a couple of years, then include the 64 most popular, as in most commented-on, A-Z items along with the 192 songs (fewer A-Z items in the unlikely event that more songs appear).
Thus we could have the spectacle of Athena v. Ode to Joyce, God v. Shit Arm Bad Tattoo and The Fall v. Descending the Stiperstones, or even the Stiperstones v. Descending the Stiperstones, what a derby, how can you resist my suggestion?
12 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Very good. We could even put the band members in. Neil vs Dani Behr? Ken vs Soft Verges?
I’d suggest we put the A to Z on hold for the duration of the tournament – as it must be pretty close to half way through, it seems an ideal time for a winter break.
Back to the LFC, and now that Dirk has pointed out the successful use of round robin groups of three in the World Korfball Championship (in 1995, at least), I’ve taken a liking to groups of that size. We could have 64 such groups of three, with one qualifier from each. These groups could be released daily in batches of four over the course of 16 days, with the the voting for each batch open for, say, a week. So the group stage would take about 3 weeks, then we’d be down to a 32-tie knockout round (four a day for eight days, perhaps?) and so on. The top 32 or even 64 from the previous tournament could be seeded to keep them apart in the group stage, with the last two albums left to take their chances, but after that it would be a free-for-all. Does this sound like a plan?
12 September 2015
Bobby SVARC
The Watney Lux Good Cup.
12 September 2015
Jeff dreadnought
It seems hard to improve on your suggested format, Chris.
I was going to suggest something completely different: a less song-based, more album-based tournament. My suggestion also takes into account the fact that much of the hype in the build-up to major international football tournaments revolves around squad selection (Gazza’s shock omission from England’s France 1998 squad being the one that springs most readily to mind).
The competition I have in mind would involve 16 “Camps of Hope”: one representing each of the 13 albums, and another three put together from the EPs, compilations and Peel sessions.
We would start with squad selection in the run-up to the tournament, with the top four highest-polling songs from each Camp of Hope making it into its respective squad.
The 16 Camps of Hope would then be drawn against each other in a straight knockout competition.
Team selection would take place prior to each round: the four songs in each squad would be drawn against each other in a knockout format (e.g. song 1 versus song 3, song 2 versus song 4). Each team would then field its two winning songs in the match itself.
Matches would literally be a game of two halves: each team would field one song in the first half, and one in the other. Teams with two winning songs would then go through to the next round. If each team fielded one winning song, the tie would go to extra time.
There would be two periods of extra time. In each period, each team would field one of the two songs that lost in the team selection round. The fact that these would be the two “weaker” songs in the squad would neatly recreate the “tired legs” element of extra time.
If scores were still level after extra time, the team whose songs garnered the biggest proportion of all the votes would win on “countback”.
And so on and so forth, until we have a “winning” album.
I’m not suggesting this one’s for now, of course, but for the future perhaps, when the LF Cup’s run its course. Or maybe it could be held every four years, in each case two years after the LF Cup.
Meanwhile, roll on October (or late September?)!
12 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Hmm, never thought of a “best album” tournament. Nice idea. Maybe one to work on for next time. Also love the idea of “Camps Of Hope”.
12 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
I’m all for 16 Camps Of Hope – great idea JD, roll on October 2017!
12 September 2015
toastkid
CTSO’s format suggestion from the 12th of september sounds good to me. I’d propose that Jeff works up his excellent sounding 16 Camps Of Hope contest into a detailed format proposal (if any more work is required, that is – it seems quite comprehensive as is) and we do that a few months after Lux Familiar.
15 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
Have to say this debate is becoming more arcane than a discussion of the various forms of proportional representation at a Lib Dem conference. Have we considered an alternative vote method where we rate all 192 songs in order of preference (as in the Labour leadership election) or indeed a weekly vote (cf Strictly/X-factor) with the bottom song eliminated – that would take us the 4 years to the next Cup
(Btw, @CtSO – if this comment appears then the Microsoft Edge issue is definitely solved)
19 September 2015
EXXO
Well since the door to the arcane has been thrust ajar*, and somewhat inspired by the approximate parity between number of HMHB songs and number of countries in the world, I’d like to propose a couple of systems based on (i) the Olympics and (ii) the World Cup.
I’d like to, but i’m notoriously unable to follow any of my bright ideas* through, so although i do intend to sketch out the pitches at some point, I won’t say watch this space.
*no prizes for guessing whose lyrics have inspired some of the phrasing here.
19 September 2015
toastkid
To throw my hat into the format ring, i’d suggest that there be two group stages, with the top two from each group in the first stage going into a second group stage, wherein they are arranged so no song ever goes up against a song that it beat/was beaten by in round 1, so that strong songs which were unlucky in Group Stage 1 have a chance to come back and make it to the finals?
20 September 2015
paul f
@Toastkid – do you not remember the tedium that was the Champions (sic) League when they had two group stages?
21 September 2015
toastkid
PaulF – no, i don’t follow football. Which I’d admit should lower the value of my format suggestions 🙂
Re tedium, though, do you mean that it went on too long? Or that the matches themselves suffered as a result?
21 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
I’m currently leaning towards a single, massive Qualifying Round which will whittle 192 songs straight down to 32, using a system which throws up a randomly-selected “A vs B” on which to vote, every time somebody looks at the page, and then ranking songs based on their win percentage. I’ve been looking at tournament formats, but I can’t find the name for this: it’s used quite often online on sites like sexymp.
If we had 200 site visitors voting on an average of 10 matches each, then every song would get 20 matches, although each one would only be one person’s opinion. Would any statisticians or tournament designers like to comment?
21 September 2015
paul f
You are just stalling now Chris – you came up with a perfectly decent format on 10 September, and have since realised that it means you’ll have to do something now, so have started coming up with spurious suggestions as a procrastinatory tactic.
21 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Damn you for seeing through my cunning plan. But the technology is nearly ready, so watch this space.
21 September 2015
EXXO
Hold on there. At FIHMHBLP we’re only 110 songs into matching up songs with countries. I’ll put the work in progress on Biccipedia in a little while, ‘cos it’ll be a distraction on here.
21 September 2015
Loop
Could you not just get people to vote for one song and just count the bloody votes for each song?
God why do men make things so God damn complicated?
If you are really battered and want a complicated system then do the first past the post system on us! Jesus, anyone would think the Tory party were organising it!
(Yes facetious is my middle name!)
22 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
I think the clue is at the top of the page, in the white text on a black background.
22 September 2015
Loop
Yeah I read that! I’m just hormonal and angry! Why does it have to a be a cup? Does it really make it “fun”?
Grumble, grumble, grumble. Ginger biscuits!
22 September 2015
I’M STANLEY ROUS, NICE TO MEET YOU
Yea and why does it have to be ‘fun’ anyway? Chile 1962 wasn’t ‘fun’.
Stand by for some distinctly not fun suggestions.
22 September 2015
toastkid
ah but Loop, the idea isn’t to get to a single answer as soon as possible – the idea is to generate months of argument and discussion about the merit of various tracks. The actual end result is secondary to this… think of it like a boardgame: you could change the rules so someone wins after one dice roll but where’s the fun in that?
23 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
Just as a matter of interest, do “The Trumpton Riots” and “On Finding The Studio Banjo” count as separate songs for LF Cup purposes?
23 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Definitely. OFTSB has its own title, which I think is enough for most people. Things might have been different if the song had been called “Trumpton Riots (2003 remix)”.
23 September 2015
paul f
Maybe there also needs to be a league alongside the cups. Annual affair – 192 teams could make up 8 divisions of 24 with 3 up 3 down. Home and away format with perhaps a 10% uplift in votes for the “home” team. Songs in new albums to form a new rung at the bottom – it would be fascinating to watch a popular new song working its way up the divisions in a John Toshack’s Swansea-manner.
You’d be up for that wouldn’t you Chris?
23 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Yep! Fortunately for you all, I don’t have a life. Oh, what’s that…?
23 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
OK, here’s a soft launch for those of you who read this. I’ll announce things properly at the weekend via email and Facebook, but feel free to start voting now, and let me know if you encounter any problems!
As previously advised, we’re going to select 32 songs from the 192 through mass random A-vs-B voting. Go to the page below as often as you like over the next three weeks, take a look at the randomly-generated fixture, and choose your preferred song. Then do it all over again, as often as you like…
The Lux Familiar Cup 2015: Qualifying Round
24 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
Vote early, vote often.
24 September 2015
Emerging from gorse
Fantastic. Logged on for a quick vote and still at it 15 minutes later.
“On Finding The Studio Banjo” and “Give Us Bubblewrap” seem to be appearing with alarming regularity!
24 September 2015
Eric olthwaite
This is great fun, thanks Chris. Just two questions/ suggestions? If it’s easy for you to do, could you post the total number of votes cast, maybe once a week (not for each song, obviously, just the overall total as it would be interesting to see the volume of votes). And, will there be a rundown of those songs that didn’t make the last 32?
Right, I’m off to vote for another dozen before bed.
24 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
Good effing God, my first choice is between “We Built this Village On A Trad. Arr. Tune” and “Fix It So She Dreams Of Me”?
Two of HMHB’s best five songs, and I’m supposed to choose between them? Fuck me. This has quickly turned into hell.
25 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
EO: yes, I’ll post some updates. By the looks of things, there may well be a lot more matches/votes taking place than I imagined. With 192 songs, there are over 18,000 possible matchups, and I was hoping we might get that many matches generated, even though probability theory would suggest it’ll take a lot more for every one to actually occur. Someone might want to work out some statistics; for example, I reckon you’d need to vote 220 times to get a 90% chance of seeing a particular song appear.
FTVPS: Ooh, that’s not great, is it? I haven’t had a dilemma like that yet. Expect a lot more like this once we get to the last 8 (with added comments, including Exxo getting stroppy again).
25 September 2015
CARRIE ANNE
I’m having similar problems to FTVPS. The Battle of the Bobs, Todd v Wilson. AAARGH
25 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
You think you’ve got problems? 😉 Now I have to go back to reading academic papers on the best way to rank competitors who have played an unequal number of matches. For example, which is the best: a song which has won 15 out of 15 matches, or one which has won 29 out of 30? Any experts out there?
25 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
Oh, puh-LEEEZE. Experts, schmexperts. Screw you and your administrative problems, CtSO. You think the administrative end of this is hard? Try being a simple voting plebe. I just spent five minutes banging my head against my desk, trying to decide between “Teenage Bride” and “Bubble Wrap”. THESE CHOICES ARE HARD, MAN.
But seriously, thank you for the skip button. Something from “This Leaden Pall” vs. something from “ACD”? Seriously, who cares? Total skip.
But as a matter of curiosity, do skips figure into the voting?
25 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Good question. I’m searching for the best formula to rank the matches at the end, but I suspect that skips won’t affect anything, whatever system we use.
25 September 2015
EXXO
Stroppy? Who, moi? What’s not to love about a contest where the rules haven’t been worked out yet?
25 September 2015
WARDEN HODGES
Was going to make a joke up about how many HMHB fans does it take to change a light bulb but you can answer that for yourselves.
How the FA sort them prelim rounds out each year I’ll never know.
25 September 2015
EXXO
Not seen the recently excavated session song ‘It’s a Clear Day (but I Can’t See The Point)’ yet.
(You won’t. Jury’s still out on that one – CtSO)
25 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
OK, this might be a bit bigger than expected. I was hoping to get over 18,000 votes in the qualifying round, because that’s the number of matches you’d have if every song had to play every other one (even though that’d be unlikely to happen in a random draw like this). But after just 24 hours we’ve already had over 9,000 matches …and the competition hasn’t even been publicised beyond the existing mentions on the site yet. Maybe I shouldn’t do that, and we regulars could keep this part to ourselves.
No spoilers, but here are some teaser stats from the first 24 hours:
Song with…
…Most appearances: 129 (“Breaking News”)
…Fewest appearances: 69 (“On the ‘Roids”)
…Most wins: 95 (“██████████”)
…Fewest wins: 4 (“██████████”)
…Most defeats: 96 (“██████████”)
…Fewest defeats: 4 (“██████████”)
…Highest win ratio: 73/79 (“██████████”)
…Lowest win ratio: 4/86 (“██████████”)
If you scratch your screen hard enough, or hold it up to the light, you may be able to see through the black.
25 September 2015
EXXO
Interesting the role that ‘title recognition’ plays in this format.
The format engenders that click-button desire to go through a lot of matches quite quickly ….Mrs. Exford knows all the songs really well but doesn’t recognise a lot of the titles, mostly ones which don’t feature in the song, obviously especially in the refrain. she gave up voting quite quickly after realising she was tending to vote for titles which encapsulated catchy choruses, and tending to vote for them when she wasn’t quite sure what the other song was. She sometimes clicked on the lyrics but mostly she didn’t have the patience for that (nor for downloading spotify).
And she certainly didn’t want me singing excerpts from the two songs to her.
Actually I think that was probably why she ran away and went round to her mate Cathy’s instead.
25 September 2015
EXXO
I’d be interested to know what the approximate ratio is for songs around the 32nd & 33rd place cut-off point.
I suppose I’d be expecting around an 80% win ratio for those songs ?
25 September 2015
EXXO
Bet ‘Offal’ is doing really well too. I’ve been surprised how many ‘mid-range’ Offal songs have beaten other mid-range classics in my own voting.
25 September 2015
MR Galbraith
Great work Chris, as the other half is going out tonight I was at a bit of a loose end, but not any more. I could do this forever.
Slightly concerned at the frequency with which Improv Gobshite appears as a choice however…
25 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
Scratch the screen or hold it up to the light? I simply looked at it from the back, problem solved. I was surprised to see how much better “██████████” was doing than “██████████”, but it’s early days.
25 September 2015
Schoon
How can something so pointless and subjective be so addictive and brilliant? Well done CtSO. Must stop voting…
…not ‘Slight Reprise’ again!
25 September 2015
Bruce
We need a group stage like the Champions League so none of the big names go out to early.
25 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
@Exxo – I feel your wife’s pain. I can’t tell you how long I stared at “L’Enfer C’Est Les Autres” before I remembered what song it was.
As for the remarkable number of votes put in so far, I SWEAR I’m not responsible for more than 4,000 of them.
25 September 2015
peter mcornithologist
Is Mars Ultras involved in this competition? Em, not that it’s one of my favourites.
(Yes – all the 192 songs linked-to from here are in – CtSO)
25 September 2015
Jeff Dreadnought
I concur with your observation on the strength of Offal, Exxo, but what has struck me most of all is what a formidable collection of songs Saucy Haulage Ballads is.
25 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
Okay, I think we can all agree this voting can get kind of addicting, so I’m just wondering – how do you all know when to stop? (Asking for a friend.)
@JeffD – I couldn’t agree more. I don’t think anything from SHB has lost a match on my computer yet. I can think of matches they will lose, if they happen, but I haven’t encountered them yet. What a fantastically great little EP that was.
26 September 2015
Eric olthwaite
I’m surprised that the lowest scorer has any votes at all. Not being funny, but who in their right mind would think that Visitor For Mr Edmonds is better than anything? Hear it for the first time, chuckle at the joke, then it has no further purpose (having lost the element of surprise).
26 September 2015
Brumbiscuit
Well, you say that EO, but there is one song that scored remarkably highly last time, that just sets my teeth on edge. It celebrates a certain East Anglian market town, but it’s one I use for bog breaks at gigs. (Prepares for ritual stoning…)
26 September 2015
EXXO-CUTIONIST
@Eric : Read this and then tell yourself a song that reminds us (and Edmonds himself) of his mortality isn’t one of the greatest in the canon.
Anyway what’s a cup without a liberal scattering of giant-killings, with most of them being the giants of light entertainment.
26 September 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
What this exercise has proved for me is that the gaps in my HMHB knowledge (mainly around TLP/Godcore) are making some decisions difficult, so am going to brush up my knowledge before continuing to vote. However, just had a match between This Leaden Pall and Joy in Leeuwarden, which revealed them both to have the same intro (which of course you all knew already)
26 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
I’m surprised at how many songs there are where I’m having to click the Spotify link to make sure that they’re what I think they are. Or maybe that’s just my excuse to listen to a lot of old songs again…
26 September 2015
Phyllis Triggs
Thank God/CtSO for the SKIP button. My first vote and I’ve drawn Tommy Walsh’s Eco House vs Theme Tune For Something Or Other. No way could I cast my vote – it just didn’t seem fair. Should Theme Tune even be in the competition – as an instrumental track does it even count as a ‘song’?
26 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Exxo: in answer to your earlier question, about 67% win ratio is required to get into the top 32 at the moment. Probably something to do with binomial distributions or something. One song is significantly lagging the field on 7%; the leader has a fairly comfortable lead on 87%. The sheer number of votes so far is quite stunning, I have to say.
26 September 2015
Richard k
Absolute genius from CtSO apart from the impossible choices. Footprints v Dean Friedman. Like having to choose your least favourite Chelsea player.
27 September 2015
Paul f
I’m also having to check the song more often than I expected, probably due to Nigel’s penchant for song titles unrelated to the lyric.
27 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
Is anyone else finding themselves voting for songs just because you know the other song is a lock?
Tonight I was faced with “Trumpton Riots” vs. “Lord Hereford’s Knob” and I thought, well, of course TR is going to make it into the round of 32, it doesn’t need another vote, and I love LHK, so I’m voting for LHK, even though it’s obviously not better than TR.
Part of me justifies that strategy, while another part of me thinks that’s really fucked up. This contest is really messing with my brain.
28 September 2015
EXXO
I’d be surprised if loads of people aren’t voting tactically, not that I’m tempted to do so meself of course. The logical extension being to always vote against certain songs you think may be ‘borderline last 32’ but which you wouldn’t be arsed if they missed out, cos you reckon they tick the populist boxes but you don’t believe they’re as good as the ones you’re rooting for. Using the notional ‘last 32’ list from last time, tactical voters might take songs from about, let’s say 15-32, and decide there are certain ones they would always vote for and some they might always vote against, and likewise for any new songs from the last 2 albums that they would guess are in that approximate zone of popularity.
I’m sure Chris and his electoral commission have anticipated all possibilities and wouldn’t have chosen this voting system if they didn’t realise that some people would naturally vote that way. They probably did it ‘cos it makes things just that bit less predictable.
Anyone been sacked, arrested or divorced as a result of Lux match addiction yet?
28 September 2015
peter mcornithologist
@ Mr.Steve. Try and have a couple of days respite. Why not have a trip to dear Kansas and ogle the monster twine?
28 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Given that after three days, we already have twice as many votes as I’d dared hope for in three weeks, and that my favourite song has just crawled up to no.31, I’m almost tempted to call a halt to proceedings right now!
No spoilers of course, but there’s a surprisingly small overlap between last time’s top 32 and the current top 32, so I’d say that people are almost certainly voting tactically.
It looks like 140 to 150 different people have voted in the first three days or so, which is more than I expected, as the LFC hasn’t been publicised beyond the mentions on the site. If I emailed the 1,500 or so people who’ve contributed to the site in recent years, or mentioned it on the Facebook group (which has nearly 7,000 members now), things could go mad. I’m inclined not to do so!
However, it might cancel out the two of you who are voting rather obsessively (and you know who you are, especially the person who’s doing it from at least three different places). Seriously, if you’ve voted over 500 times – and six of you have – it might be time to get out a bit…
28 September 2015
EXXO
500? Sometimes you have to wait nearly that long just for a particular song to come up (then like the buses…).
‘Out’ you say? You design addictive free entertainment and then you advise us to go ‘out’, in an eerie echo of modern public health policies.
Well the dog does look rather fed up. I guess not everything out there has to cost money.
But wait a minute, there’s a bench out there in the woods that’s within easy reach of a neighbour’s wifi signal…
Hmm. But if I vote there, I’ll come into the dreaded “3 places” category …best not. Then again, maybe you already count me in that category cos you probably know when I’m voting in the kitchen & when I’m voting in the bog … Big Brother is Watching Us!
28 September 2015
Jeff Dreadnought
As Exxo says, it can be an awful long time before a song you’re looking for comes up. My particular favourite has only made one appearance so far, which has led me to carry on clicking much longer than I otherwise would. It’s a kind of online song poll equivalent of metal detecting. Could this be another reason for the obsessive voting behaviour?
28 September 2015
toastkid
I’m resisting all urges to vote in any other way than simply asking myself which of the two songs i prefer. It’s odd (although to be expected given random numbers) that i’ve had 3 or four songs come up at least five times each while i haven’t seen most of the others. This is out of approx 20 pairings i think. Like i say, probably just statistics.
28 September 2015
EXXO
I can’t really understand anyone stopping till they’ve done the 18,000 and then a few thousand more for luck, because that’s when “the luck should have evened out”.
Whenever any pundit says that about football “over a season” I always say, “according to my research it’ll be more like a century”.
28 September 2015
BRUMBISCUIT
I’ve just had He Who Would Valium Take v Depressed Beyond Tablets. Marvellous!
28 September 2015
BRUMBISCUIT
CtSO. I spose that’s me, but here I find myself sitting outside in the sun and voting is almost as good as writing on the sole of my slippers…
28 September 2015
EXXO
And, what joy, I just had “the Joy derby”, and a dashed hard-fought encounter it was too. Tasty stuff as the Serbians got stuck into Nero ….
28 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Good try, Brumbiscuit, but you’re not one of those top six. In the case of the top two, not by a long way. Please don’t see it as a challenge though.
28 September 2015
EXXO
Once you get your own ‘order’ sorted out you can do about 15 a minute (and my computer/internet is not even that fast – not so fast that BT can give me the bloody football the bastards). That would be 1,000 in 1 hour 7 minutes if you can stay in the zone that long (I can’t, and it’s always some 4th division tussle involving ‘Faithlift’ or something that really gets me overcome with indecisiveness that means I have to have a tea break).
28 September 2015
EXXO
So yeah, something that could be seen as a challenge is doing 1,000 in an hour – would have been easy though if I was still working on the University computers I was on 3 weeks ago.
28 September 2015
EXXO
Or of course with 2 laptops you could probably make it 1,500 an hour, where the ‘reloading time’ of one will be happening while you make your choice on another. That would be something to do while watching one of telly’s duller sports.
I am making all these helpful suggestions in order to even things up for those whom the lord hath blessed with jobs and kids and schedules and stuff.
28 September 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
@CtSO – I’d have to go back and read some of your earlier messages about the voting process again, but I’m pretty sure you said you wanted each of us to vote 18,000 times. I’ve only been following instructions.
@PMcO – Your obsession with that gigantic ball of twine is starting to disturb me. Besides, if I went there now, I’d have someone else drive, and I’d just sit in the back seat with my phone, voting away, mile after mile after mile.
28 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
If all of you could have voted 18,000 times between you, say 50 to 100 each, that would have been fine. Seriously, fine.
If this carries on, I may have to limit the number of votes we’ll count from any individual. At the moment there are so many potential matches, it’s still worth everyone joining in. But it may not stay that way.
I think I’ll analyse the number of wins and losses for each song, and if an unreasonable number come from one individual, discount the excess. Now there’s a little bit of controversy to add to the game’s appeal.
28 September 2015
paul f
Some interesting emotions are being thrown up by the voting methodology – one being the relief you feel when you have to vote against a song you really like because you like its opponent even more, only for the same song to flash up again immediately against a song you like a bit less. The Germans have probably got a word for it.
28 September 2015
EXXO
This where it does help to think things through before you start, and tell people the rules before they start wasting their time. I’m sure most of us were gobsmacked right away on Thursday when we saw the loopholes in your chosen methodology but have spent hours exploiting them nevertheless now to find those hours may have been wasted.
I promise to stop voting and stop being stroppy if you give me some career advice on how to make money out of pointing out why people’s internet voting ideas don’t work
28 September 2015
Beltane beard
Lovely, the Lux Familiar Cup is back! Look forward to spending a lot of my free time voting in the next two weeks…
The only downside is at the end of it all I’ll no doubt have to have my usual rant about how “A Country Practice” isn’t even in my top 100 HMHB songs, let alone the best. Harrumph.
29 September 2015
peter mcornithologist
There are no downsides.This is great fun. I know my beloved Joyce is a rank outsider and has about as much chance as winning the cup as Hartlepool but I won’t get miffed and I won’t get a gob on.
29 September 2015
Radar
This is a brilliant thread. I think I understand how this all works, but there’s one thing I’d like clearing up. When can I expect Graham Kelly to show up with two silk bags?
29 September 2015
Beltane beard
Fair point Peter McOrnithologist, will be fun whatever happens.
ACP is Chelsea or Arsenal whereas my darlings Doreen and Tyrolean Knockabout are just there in the hope of a giant killing or two (and maybe a dog on the pitch).
29 September 2015
dickhead in quicksand
Joyce is a rank (though probably not sensitive) outsider, who I haven’t yet seen.
Can I claim some sort of prize for having two “lilac” songs go head-to-head? (Thought not.)
I feel sure that I’ve seen the same line-up more than once and voted in opposite ways.
29 September 2015
Chigley Skin
Our Floreat Inertia away kits are on, and we’re leading the chants on the ordinary to Leeuwarden (in fact you can probably hear us, given what we did to the windows). Yes, the Chigley skins are here for another Lux Familiar rampage. We’ve even pooled our money and bought a tin of weak lager to share between us.
Already the format’s throwing up some true pool-game intrigue. Do we have a duty to back some of the proud, illustrious old names of Biccieball against so many nouveau upstarts? Will any of the twenty-five competitors who’ve entered since the last tournament seriously threaten the heavyweights, or do they have to settle for being That African Team Everyone Wants To Win The World Cup Despite Knowing Full Well They’re Going To Get Knobbed Come The Quarter Final? And crucially, what’s all this about CtSO agreeing to host the next Lux Familiar in the traditional HMHB heartland of Qatar?
30 September 2015
SERA69
Yay! Another LFC tournament. Damn travesty BOTQ never made even the top 32 last time. Clicking finger at the ready… Here we go!
30 September 2015
much muchmore
Help – how do I stop voting. This is the most addictive thing I’ve ever come across. And I’ve just missed a dentists appointment!!
30 September 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Exxo will be pleased to know that I may not have to add any controversy to increase the game’s appeal. A massive surge in new people voting over the past 24 hours has seen the two popular songs which clearly had a dedicated campaign against them from two or three voters start to make their way up the table regardless. One is already into the top 32 and the other is not far behind. Although it’s easy to spot any outlying voting patterns*, it doesn’t now look like any will be significant.
Non-spoiler data update
Song with…
…Most appearances: 675 (“The Len Ganley Stance”)
…Fewest appearances: 532 (“Tonight Matthew I’m Going To Be With Jesus”)
…Highest win ratio: 507/612 (“██████████”)
…Lowest win ratio: 50/537 (“██████████”)
Win ratio required to make top 32: 64%
(*Where one IP address has voted a lot, but the voting for or against one song doesn’t fit in with either that person’s voting pattern or the overall one.)
30 September 2015
PAT BOONE ON THE COUNTY BASSOON
Glad to see the Lux Familiar Cup return. Will Frank Muir be dug up for the presentations?
30 September 2015
brumbiscuit
No, I believe Bruce Forsyth will be brought out of cryogenic suspension for the occasion. Like Lenin, please ignore any bits that drop off. No firm handshakes, please.
30 September 2015
Chigley Skin
Hmm, that’s an interesting one from the fixture computer. After giving me Carry On Cremating vs On Reaching The Wensum, it immediately decided a second leg was required, this time with Wensum on home turf. Some songs just don’t know when they’re beaten.
30 September 2015
Littlegrafter
Very long time, no post, but great to see the LFC back with us.
Just had a 5min spell and had the SAME TIE come up twice in about 5 fixtures. Now I know with these things it always feels like you’ve had a tie before given the frequency some songs seem to appear (ITMA for me). But this was the special, Dickie Davies Eyes – David Wainwright’s Feet (almost) derby! What’s the chance if that?
1 October 2015
Schoon
I’ll have a stab. If the songs appear randomly, probability of any particular pairing is 1/192 * 1/191. Let’s say you did 100 matches in the five minutes. Probability not getting a repeat = {1-1/192*1/191}^100.
The new android has the worst calculator ever, so work it out yourselves. Corrections are welcome.
1 October 2015
toastkid
Schoon, i think the last bit of your logic’s wrong. If there’s 192 songs then as you say, any specific pairing has this probability of coming up on any single match:
1/192 * 1/191 = 0.00273
Then, if we want to know the chances of this happening again in the next 99 pairings (using your 100 matches example) then it’s this probability **multiplied** by 99. It looks like you’re doing “to the power of 99”.
So, chance of same pair coming up at least twice in 100 matches =
0.00273 * 99 = 0.2699, or approximately 1 in 4.
What that means is that if lots of people do 100 matches, 27% of them (on average) will see the same pair come up twice at some point. If the people who DON’T see the same pair come up twice DON’T post on the forum to tell everyone, but the people who DO see the same pair DO post about it, then looking at the forum posts you’d see a skewed representation of what’s actually happening.
Conversely, if the percentage of people who are *actually* seeing the same pairs come up repeatedly is a lot higher than 27%, then it means that there might be something wrong with CTSO’s randomiser.
1 October 2015
toastkid
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
1 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Toastkid is correct. Otherwise we’re still at 97.3% chance of not having a repeat after 1000 matches. However, if there are 18,336 pairings (let’s not worry about home advantage), after 18,337 matches the chances of not having had a repeat are zero. And the formula from Schoon doesn’t give that. So I think it’s actually more linear. After 2 matches, the chances of a repeat are 1/18,336. After 18,337 matches the chances of a repeat are 18,336/18,336. So I reckon that the chances of having had a repeat after n matches is (n-1)/18336.
1 October 2015
Schoon
Mine is not clear I’ll give you that. My calculation is probability it does NOT occur, so to calculate the required probability do 1 – mine. It is very difficult to calculate probability of one or more, hence the trick.
You can’t multiply by 99 toast because what if you look at 1000 matches, your probability will be greater than one.
1 October 2015
Littlegrafter
Thanks for the statistical analysis, but…..wait for it…..
Its happened again, just about 10 ties into my next batch the David/Davies (almost) derby comes AGAIN. This time on a different device whether that makes a difference (doubt it). I’m getting spooked here!
One other thing, I’m sure there’s some others on here doing The Fall Cup 2015 over on the Fall Forum, funny that these should both come around at the same time. So how about a Super Cup play off of the respective winners? Probably best to have a neutral electorate for that one to avoid bias. The REO Speedwagon forum perhaps?
1 October 2015
dickhead in quicksand
As Schoon says, you’ve got to work out the chance of each new pairing being different from all previous ones, and multiply them together. For one pairing, the chance is (rather obviously) 18336 / 18336 = 1, or percentagewisely 100. For two, it’s (18336 / 18336) * (18335 / 18336) = 99.995%. For N pairings, it’s (18336 * 18335 * 18334 * … * 18336-(N-1)) / 18336^N; or if you prefer, 18336! / ((18336-N)! * 18336^N).
These results of such calculations are counterintuitive. The effect of multiplying lots of numbers not much less than one mounts up surprisingly fast. The chance of 10 pairings all being different is 99.75%; of 100, 76.3%; of 1000, getting towards vanishingly small; even though it only reaches zero at 18337.
I make it that there’s a 50% chance of your seeing a repeat pairing after 160 votes; a 90% chance after 291; and a 99% chance after 410. Other calculations are left as an exercise for the interested reader.
1 October 2015
Eric olthwaite
Although, DIQ, statistically speaking, saying it can reach zero may not be right. A probability of zero means it will never happen, but if there were millions and millions of votes it might.
As an aside, this preliminary round is also an opportunity to establish our favourite album. If the full list of votes is put on the site I’d be happy to do the numbers. SPSS would make it pretty quick. Average score weighted by number of songs on the album would seem to be fairest way, in that it means that those records with more tracks don’t have an advantage compared to just summing them. And we’d need to decide whether to include the EPs. If anyone (especially CTSO) thinks this is a bad idea I’ll withdraw the suggestion.
1 October 2015
dickhead in quicksand
@EO – the probability of no new match has to reach zero once you’ve exhausted every possibility. With a mere 18336 possible combinations, #18337 must be a duplicate.
I had already pointed out to CtSO that he will have the data for that trifling calculation of most popular album/EP once this qually round is done. I can be an annoying bastard when I put my mind to it. Or even when I don’t.
2 October 2015
Eric olthwaite
Ah, you’re right DIQ. I think I had probability of duplicates in my head, not lack of duplicates.
2 October 2015
peter mcornithologist
Thank you chaps. I have returned to 1969 and my inability to grasp anything connected with hard sums.
2 October 2015
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
Just out of interest, shouldn’t we have called the Qualifying Round the “Baguette Dilemma” round? On quite a few I’ve felt like screaming for the beadle at the difficulty of the choice I’m expected to make.
Of course! – CtSO
2 October 2015
toastkid
Aha yes, Schoon’s correct: each time you draw, the odds of the next one containing a pair you’ve already seen changes depending on how many draws you’ve had already, since the pool of “pairs i’ve not seen yet” shrinks every time.
2 October 2015
dickhead in quicksand
I visualise Lux familiars as the companion animals of aged imprecation-muttering crones who wear fluffy woollens and look for discounts on Lenor.
2 October 2015
Schoon
Spoiler alert:
I just shoved the songs into a predictive policing computer and it spat out the round of 32 as: Jdog – Chatteris – Acp – Aor – Trumpton – Bob W – Bob T – Dukla – God gave us life – Look dad – Titmus – Vatican – Korfball – Westward ho! – PRS – San Antonio – Garage people – Vitas – Surging – Yahoo chess – Eno – NSD – RnRiFoBW – Monmore – Harry Quinn – Jarg Armani – Tour jacket – Footprints – Gwatkin – Capel Cuirig – Petty sessions – Techstep. And it reckons surging will win.
Also Australia 32:17 England.
3 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Not even remotely close. There’ll be no spoilers here, but I can say that the first 5 or 6 days were a bit strange, dominated by some rather determined voting from a small number of people, but in the past 3 or 4 days, hundreds of new voters have joined in (over 640 different IP addresses have now been logged), and the initial bias has been all but diluted out. Things are still changing significantly on a daily basis though, so don’t feel your vote won’t count for much.
All three of my favourite songs are now languishing outside the top 32, but I’m not getting a gob on. There are also several songs from the previous Lux Familiar “last 32” which are struggling, and a couple right up there in the top 10 which I suspect few people would have predicted. Certainly I wouldn’t.
One song is lagging well behind in 192nd place. Even so, it’s had over 60 wins.
To pre-empt a question, all the data will be published here at the end of the tournament, of course, so that Eric O (and others) can investigate the favourite album. But I won’t reveal anything about the individual voting for the songs which made top 32 in the Baguette Dilemma Round until after the final, to avoid it influencing the knockout rounds.
3 October 2015
Schoon
Hmm maybe I pressed the wrong buttons. I for one cannot wait to find out. Ta CTSO, much more exciting than the Rugby world cup so far.
3 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
I’m not sure if I ever published this four years ago, but here (in spreadsheet form) is the voting from the Group Stage of the 2011 Lux Familiar Cup. Although we can’t compare this tournament’s voting directly, we will eventually be able to see if any songs have become inexplicably popular or unpopular within the context of the album they appeared on.
6 October 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
Wow, thanks for releasing that, CtSO. That’s really…..interesting. I wasn’t round here for the voting in 2011, and I realise we all have different tastes, but I am shocked, shocked mind you, by some of those results.
7 October 2015
Two fat feet
I will be coming out of retirement to produce final ratings once it’s all finished.
Possibly.
11 October 2015
The Laughing Cavalier
I’ve not been on this site for years (literally – I needed an enforced break) but now I’ve been sucked back in. And I honestly thought I’d get some work done today …
12 October 2015
Featureless tv producer steve
If CtSO is sticking to his original end-date of 16 October, we all need to step it up here in the next couple days if we’re going to hit a quarter-million votes.
14 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Ha ha. As we’re going to have ten times my original target, I think that’s quite enough.
14 October 2015
Stringy bob
If Chatteris wins this cup, i’ll be sending Chris a parcelled-up Sanderling. I just don’t get the fuss about such an average tune.
14 October 2015
peter mcornithologist
I read recently that Bob Dylan believed that his finest composition is Like A Rolling Stone. It made me wonder which track the band members would choose if they were involved in The Lux Familiar Cup. Ode To Joyce of course!
14 October 2015
paul f
Is it including 16 October or excluding?
15 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Including! I’ll switch it off when I go to bed. 🙂
15 October 2015
paul f
Right – that’s it, I’m done. After one last mammoth session to make sure I landed a vote for Uffington Wassail (which has been very noticeable by its absence from my match-ups) I will leave it in the lap of the gods.
16 October 2015
Nige
I’m carrying on until “old tige” comes up on my list
16 October 2015
Adam
Getting in a bunch of votes under the deadline, while work is slow…
How random are the head-to-head matchups? There are tantalizing hints of higher purpose every so often, like when it comes up “Depressed Beyond Tablets” vs “He Who Would Valium Take”.
16 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Oh this is rather wonderful. I went on the site to close the voting, couldn’t resist a couple more votes myself, and look what came up straight away. Maybe the system’s trying to tell me it’s finally had enough.
Anyway, that’s it for now – I’ll go away and collate the results in the spare moments this weekend between watching some Championship mid-table mediocrity on Saturday and trying not to leave my Barbour in Twickenham car park on Sunday.
16 October 2015
Hazelsound
My joy last night when I discovered LFC was running again. Have discussed previous results endlessly with Mr Hazelsound for years. He was asleep, so thought we’d play this morning…imagine my misery. Voting closed. (Ok, so I should have been paying attention and noticed when this kicked off, but stuff happens.) Little sigh.
17 October 2015
Chris The Siteowner
Fear not. You’ve only missed the Baguette Dilemma round. The last 32 starts next week!
17 October 2015
Hazelsound
Thanks Chris – yes, I realise that I can join in the next round (very exciting). The control freak in me would have liked to help shape the top 32 though (not that my contribution would have counted for much against some of the regulars here). Also, I just wanted to be in a baguette dilemma. Who wouldn’t? Thanks for taking the time with all this though and for making a newcomer welcome.
17 October 2015
Loop
Haha Chris, has someone put in a request for right to information? You know they now have to pay for you to photocopy it all! Lol. Reminds me a little of something I did way back when I lectured at uni. Anyone from the old yahoo group remember when I got my students to do a stats assignment on the frequency of posting and looking for statistically significant correlation between gig dates and number of posts? I did play them mathematically safe but it was lost on the majority of them. My mature students did have a giggle though!
Interested to see how the first past the post system works out. I did have a dabble but not many of my favourites came up. Steel Hearts got a vote though!
Next: See what happened in each round…
17 October 2015