The Lux Familiar Cup 2023: Baguette Dilemma Round results

And we have our qualifiers!

First of all, a recap on what we did: for four weeks to 11 June 2023, anyone could vote on any number of random ‘Song A vs Song B’ matchups, so that we could eventually order the songs based on the percentage of matchups that they won. Hundreds of people took part: we can’t know how many, but they voted from 2,357 different IP addresses, so it was almost certainly over 2,000 people. The raw data showed 484,618 matches. During the first evening of voting, the votes were coming in at over 25,000 per hour – that’s 7 votes per second!

The final data was adjusted in a couple of ways. There were 24,090 possible matchups between 220 songs; all of them came up at least 5 times, but a few came up an exceptional number of times, possibly due to the random tie generator not being that good, or possibly something to do with stuff being held in website browser memory. So for those few ties which came up over 100 times, the results were ‘downsampled’ to that level. This lost us about 1,200 votes (0.25% of the total). Also, although some people voted an astonishing number of times, we decided that this was fine if there was no extraordinary pattern in their voting. One person did show this trait, so those votes were discarded. Again, this was only a fraction of a percent of the overall vote total.

Overall, after the adjustments, every song showed up between 4,210 and 4,651 times.

Once we had a table, there was one further rule to apply to decide the qualifiers, as announced in the Tournament Preview. This was to guarantee that at least six songs would qualify for the final 32 from each of these ‘eras’ in the band’s history: 1985–1993, 1995–2000, 2001–2008, and 2011–2022. The years are slightly arbitrary, but each has about the same number of songs. Those 24 songs would be joined by the 8 highest ranked songs not otherwise qualifying. In the end, this meant that the songs that ranked 28, 30 and 31 did not qualify, instead being replaced by the songs ranked 37, 39 and 50, which are from eras which had fewer than 6 songs in the top 32.

As in previous competitions, we haven’t shown the rankings of the 32 qualifiers at this stage, because we don’t want to influence the knockout stages.

The Qualifiers

1985–1993
99% Of Gargoyles Look Like Bob Todd
All I Want For Christmas Is A Dukla Prague Away Kit
Dickie Davies Eyes
Everything’s AOR
Fuckin’ ‘Ell It’s Fred Titmus
Outbreak of Vitas Gerulaitis
The Trumpton Riots
Time Flies By (When You’re A Driver Of A Train)

1995–2000
Bottleneck at Capel Curig
Eno Collaboration
Irk The Purists
Look Dad No Tunes
Paintball’s Coming Home
Twenty Four Hour Garage People

2001–2008
Bob Wilson – Anchorman
Evening Of Swing (Has Been Cancelled)
For What Is Chatteris…
Joy Division Oven Gloves
National Shite Day
Restless Legs
She’s In Broadstairs
Tending The Wrong Grave For 23 Years
The Light at the End of the Tunnel (is the Light of an Oncoming Train)
Them’s The Vagaries
We Built This Village On A Trad. Arr. Tune
When The Evening Sun Goes Down

2011–2022
Every Time a Bell Rings
Knobheads on Quiz Shows
Midnight Mass Murder
Oblong of Dreams
Rock And Roll Is Full Of Bad Wools
Terminus

The Full Table

	Song	Wins
1		84.3%
2		82.2%
3		79.4%
4		78.9%
5		78.8%
6		78.7%
7		78.5%
8		76.7%
9		76.7%
10		76.0%
11		75.5%
12		74.8%
13		72.0%
14		71.6%
15		69.6%
16		69.6%
17		69.5%
18		69.1%
19		68.6%
20		68.6%
21		68.6%
22		68.5%
23		68.2%
24		67.7%
25		67.2%
26		67.2%
27		66.2%
28	The Bastard Son Of Dean Friedman	66.1%
29		66.0%
30	Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess	65.9%
31	Westward Ho! – Massive Letdown	65.9%
32		65.8%
33	Joy In Leeuwarden (We Are Ready)	65.6%
34	Running Order Squabble Fest	64.7%
35	Swerving the Checkatrade	64.1%
36	I’m Getting Buried In The Morning	64.0%
37		64.0%
38	Man of Constant Sorrow (With a Garage in Constant Use)	63.6%
39		63.3%
40	Asparagus Next Left	63.1%
41	Depressed Beyond Tablets	63.0%
42	Descent Of The Stiperstones	62.7%
43	Took Problem Chimp To Ideal Home Show	62.6%
44	Surging out of Convalescence	62.5%
45	The Referee’s Alphabet	62.3%
46	Vatican Broadside	62.2%
47	Slipping The Escort	62.0%
48	Lord Hereford’s Knob	62.0%
49	Turned Up Clocked On Laid Off	61.9%
50		61.6%
51	The Unfortunate Gwatkin	61.6%
52	Tommy Walsh’s Eco House	61.4%
53	Dead Men Don’t Need Season Tickets	61.3%
54	Renfield’s Afoot	61.2%
55	A Country Practice	60.9%
56	If I Had Possession Over Pancake Day	60.8%
57	27 Yards Of Dental Floss	60.5%
58	Awkward Sean	60.0%
59	Shit Arm, Bad Tattoo	59.9%
60	In a Suffolk Ditch	59.6%
61	What Made Colombia Famous…	59.5%
62	Tess of the Dormobiles	59.1%
63	A Lilac Harry Quinn	58.9%
64	Alehouse Futsal	58.9%
65	I was a teenage armchair Honved fan	58.7%
66	Upon Westminster Bridge	58.6%
67	Monmore, Hare’s Running	58.5%
68	God Gave Us Life	58.3%
69	Harsh Times in Umberstone Covert	58.2%
70	CORGI Registered Friends	58.2%
71	Hedley Verityesque	58.2%
72	Grafting Haddock In The George	58.2%
73	Keeping Two Chevrons Apart	57.3%
74	Totnes Bickering Fair	56.8%
75	The Len Ganley Stance	56.7%
76	Fix It So She Dreams Of Me	55.8%
77	Bad Review	55.8%
78	Sealclubbing	55.6%
79	Thy Damnation Slumbereth Not	55.4%
80	Four Skinny Indie Kids	54.7%
81	San Antonio Foam Party	54.6%
82	Little In The Way Of Sunshine	54.6%
83	Old Age Killed My Teenage Bride	54.3%
84	Paradise Lost (You’re The Reason Why)	53.8%
85	The Bane Of Constance	53.7%
86	It Makes The Room Look Bigger	53.6%
87	Rogation Sunday	53.5%
88	Adam Boyle Has Cast Lad Rock Aside	53.4%
89	4AD3DCD	53.2%
90	Left Lyrics In The Practice Room	52.6%
91	Friday Night And The Gates Are Low	52.5%
92	Mate of the Bloke	52.1%
93	Uffington Wassail	51.9%
94	When I Look At My Baby	51.9%
95	Gubba Look-a-likes	51.9%
96	Used To Be In Evil Gazebo	51.8%
97	Tonight Matthew, I’m going to be with Jesus	51.8%
98	Even Men With Steel Hearts	51.8%
99	King of Hi-Vis	51.2%
100	Improv Workshop Mimeshow Gobshite	51.2%
101	I Left My Heart In Papworth General	50.7%
102	Prag Vec at the Melkweg	50.7%
103	Urge For Offal	50.7%
104	Breaking News	50.6%
105	Something’s Rotten In The Back of Iceland	50.5%
106	It’s Cliched to be Cynical at Christmas	50.4%
107	L’Enfer C’Est Les Autres	50.2%
108	Ode To Joyce	50.2%
109	Mathematically Safe	49.9%
110	Tour Jacket with Detachable Sleeves	49.3%
111	Persian Rug Sale At The URC	49.3%
112	Ordinary to Enschede	49.0%
113	Mod. Diff. Vdiff. Hard Severe	48.8%
114	I Hate Nerys Hughes (From The Heart)	48.5%
115	Blue Badge Abuser	48.1%
116	This Leaden Pall	47.7%
117	P.R.S. Yearbook – Quick, The Drawbridge	47.6%
118	Stuck Up A Hornbeam	47.6%
119	Floreat Inertia	47.5%
120	Bladderwrack Allowance	47.3%
121	The Best Things In Life	47.2%
122	A Shropshire Lad	47.2%
123	Secret Gig	47.1%
124	The Coroner’s Footnote	46.7%
125	Albert Hammond Bootleg	46.7%
126	Blood on the Quad	46.7%
127	CAMRA Man	46.7%
128	The Ballad of Climie Fisher	46.4%
129	Reflections in A Flat	46.4%
130	Yipps (My Baby Got The)	46.2%
131	Fun Day in the Park	46.1%
132	Rod Hull Is Alive – Why?	45.8%
133	The Announcement	45.6%
134	1966 And All That	45.5%
135	I Love You Because (You Look Like Jim Reeves)	45.4%
136	My Outstretched Arms	45.4%
137	Give Us Bubblewrap	45.1%
138	Baguette Dilemma For The Booker Prize Guy	45.1%
139	Big Man Up Front	44.9%
140	With Goth On Our Side	44.5%
141	Beneath This Broken Headstone (There Lies A Broken Heart)	44.3%
142	David Wainwright’s Feet	44.0%
143	Petty Sessions	43.8%
144	Deep House Victims Minibus Appeal	43.7%
145	Twydale’s Lament	43.5%
146	Lark Descending	43.4%
147	Mileage Chart	42.7%
148	Venus in Flares	42.3%
149	Sensitive Outsider	41.8%
150	You’re Hard	41.7%
151	Turn A Blind Eye	41.2%
152	Footprints	41.0%
153	Whit Week Malarkey	41.0%
154	Excavating Rita	40.8%
155	Letters Sent	40.8%
156	Sponsoring the Moshpits	40.7%
157	D’Ye Ken Ted Moult?	40.6%
158	On The ’Roids	40.3%
159	Fear My Wraith	40.2%
160	Reasons To Be Miserable (Part 10)	39.6%
161	Bogus Official	39.3%
162	Lock Up Your Mountain Bikes	39.2%
163	Let’s Not	39.0%
164	I Went To A Wedding…	38.8%
165	Token Covid Song	38.7%
166	Emerging From Gorse	38.6%
167	Jarg Armani	38.4%
168	See That My Bike’s Kept Clean	37.7%
169	He Who Would Valium Take	37.4%
170	Tyrolean Knockabout	37.1%
171	On Passing Lilac Urine	37.1%
172	Quality Janitor	37.0%
173	Arthur’s Farm	37.0%
174	Architecture and Morality Ted and Alice	37.0%
175	Fretwork Homework	36.7%
176	Our Tune	36.5%
177	RSVP	36.1%
178	M-6-ster	35.9%
179	Mars Ultras, You’ll Never Make The Station	35.7%
180	Girlfriend’s Finished With Him	35.3%
181	Hair Like Brian May Blues	34.1%
182	Nove on the Sly	34.0%
183	Whiteness Thy Name Is Meltonian	34.0%
184	Emergency Locksmith	33.7%
185	This One’s For Now	32.2%
186	Styx Gig (Seen By My Mates Coming Out Of A)	31.9%
187	Soft Verges	31.8%
188	Third Track Main Camera Four Minutes	31.8%
189	Ecclesiastical Perks	31.6%
190	Busy Little Market Town	31.2%
191	Song of Encouragement for the Orme Ascent	31.1%
192	Moody Chops	30.7%
193	On Finding The Studio Banjo	30.6%
194	Ready Steady Goa	30.5%
195	Worried Man Blues	30.5%
196	Faithlift	30.3%
197	I, Trog	30.2%
198	Numanoid Hang-glide	29.1%
199	ITMA	28.1%
200	On Reaching The Wensum	28.0%
201	£24.99 From Argos	27.9%
202	Malayan Jelutong	27.8%
203	Christian Rock Concert	27.4%
204	Doreen	27.1%
205	New York Skiffle	26.8%
206	Carry On Cremating	25.3%
207	Epiphany	25.3%
208	False Grit	25.1%
209	Frequent Electric Trains	24.9%
210	Mr Cave’s a Window Cleaner Now	24.7%
211	Split Single With Happy Lounge Labelmates	24.6%
212	Children of Apocalyptic Techstep	22.7%
213	Get Kramer	22.5%
214	13 Eurogoths Floating In The Dead Sea	21.7%
215	Song For Europe	21.6%
216	Theme Tune For Something Or Other	18.7%
217	Stavanger Töestub	17.8%
218	Multitude	16.8%
219	Slight Reprise	10.3%
220	Visitor for Mr Edmonds	8.6%

What’s next?

The first knockout round of 32 will be later in the summer. Watch this space for the draw and the voting details. If you want to compare the results to previous competitions, you can find the results here:

2011 (different rules)
2015
2019

Previous: The Lux Familiar Cup 2023: Baguette Dilemma Round voting
Next: The Page 32 It’s A Bad Review Round (Preview)

✉ Letters Sent (59)

Chris The Siteowner

If anyone wants to delve into the data a bit more deeply, let me know what you need to know. Huge thanks go to Rob and Scott for their advice and opinions putting this together (and for stopping me from making it even more complicated!).

12 June 2023

Transit full of keith

OK, I wasn’t expecting them to qualify for the final 32, but in what world is it possible that bangers like ‘Multitude’, ‘£24.99 from Argos’, ‘Get Kramer’, ‘Frequent Electric Trains’ and ‘Malayan Jelutong’ get ranked lower than ‘On Finding the Studio Banjo’?
*shakes fist angrily at public consensus*

(I feel your pain, a disappointing 8 of my Top 20 songs qualified, and some of the 20 didn’t even make the Top 100! – CtSO)

12 June 2023

Lux inferior

I find myself in the Slough of Despond after not a single track from my favourite album, TLP, made the cut. Only two qualifiers from TVY as well, which is something of a surprise.

12 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

I was also surprised that TVY didn’t do better. The ‘occasionals’ who voted a lot at the beginning tended to throw their lot in heavily with the first album, but I think there was quite a bit of love from them for the most recent output too, which makes sense. As the competition went on, voting was taken over by what we might call ‘regulars’, who spread the love more widely. Here are the songs that qualified:

Back In The D.H.S.S.: 5 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 1 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 2 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 0 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 0 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 2 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 0 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 4 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 1 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 4 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 1 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 4 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 2 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 1 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 0 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 3 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 2 out of 14

…and here are the songs that made the top half of the table:

Back In The D.H.S.S.: 9 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 3 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 5 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 4 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 3 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 6 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 3 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 9 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 2 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 11 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 2 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 11 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 9 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 8 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 6 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 9 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 10 out of 14

That’s a very solid performance from 6 of the last 7 albums, very much including TVY.

12 June 2023

EXXO

I suppose the most comment-worthy aspects from the setlist scholars’ point of view are (i) strong correlation with setlists overall; (ii) that among the exceptions to (i), we can continue to hope that 24HGP might make a return to regular performance one day; (iii) we can’t hold out much hope that your inaugural winner (ACP) will make a regular return to the setlist

12 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

Indeed, the fall of A Country Practice from being the 2011 winner to missing out on the Top 50 is easily the most noteworthy change over the years.

12 June 2023

paul F

Incredible change of opinion on ACP. Also interesting to note that swapping your electric guitar for a banjo will more than halve your popularity.

For me, sub 40% scores for Orme Ascent and Gorse are scandalous, and I’m gutted that Uffington Wassail only just scraped above par. But it all just goes to show the quality of the competition. No crocks of shit here.

12 June 2023

Jet the Viceroy

Disappointed that Slipping the Escort didn’t do better. One of their finest songs ever IMHO (but maybe one of the most melancholic too, which might explain it…)

12 June 2023

parsfan

There’s a few songs that must never have come against each other in my matches, eg Secret Gig, Blood On The Quad, Depressed Beyond Tablets & Fix It So She Dreams Of Me, as I’m sure they each always won.

None of them made the cut, what’s wrong with you lot?

If you consider 50% a pass mark then Mathematically Safe, at 49.9%, doesn’t quite live up to its name. Though at 109/220 does just make the top half of the table.

12 June 2023

BAD LOSER

It has only just occurred to me that ‘Old Tige’ wasn’t included in the draw. It was probably hearing the laughter at the end of that when listening to the first John Peel session that convinced me that they were a band I was really going to get into.

Grounds for having the competition to date annulled and redrawn?

12 June 2023

EXXO

It would probably win a Jim Reeves popularity contest. Hopefully the final in the Johnny Cash contest would not be between two novelty hits.

12 June 2023

schoon

Knobheads on Quiz Shows?!?
David Wainwright’s Feet ten places higher than Footprints?

Letting people vote is always a bad iidea.

Thanks CtSO, despite my compulsory whinging, this is great and I can’t wait for the knockouts.

12 June 2023

old tige

@Parsfan Indeed, that is amazing that Mathematically Safe is the first under 50%.

On a similar note, it is a massive letdown that Massive Letdown lost on a technicality.

12 June 2023

old tige

I mean, this round was named after a song on Urge for Offal. Shouldn’t the host country get a berth in the 32, especially since Westward Ho! actually is in the top 32?

12 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

Top, top idea. Definitely one to consider for next time.

12 June 2023

The Skiver

Bugger. I thought today was the 11th. I seem to have wasted half an hour earlier today…

12 June 2023

Pirx The Purist

Some major disappointments there.

Mr. Cave and Jelutong not even in the top 200?
ITMA, Goa, Nove, Reasons, Mars Ultras, Wraith outside the top 150?
Mileage Chart, Reflections in the bottom half of the table?
Clichéd, Breaking News not breaking into the Hot 100?
Escort only just getting above 50?

I wonder if it’s been skewed by Lammo’s intervention?

Either way, the line-up for the next round looks as disconcertingly dull and predictable as the UEFA Champions’ League. Not sure if I’ll bother voting beyond the BDR…

12 June 2023

Achilles the Gecko

Justice for Fix it so she dreams of me and Tess of the Dormobiles!

12 June 2023

Woodnoggin

I’m surprised by Swerving the Checkatrade’s performance. It always struck me as a bit throwaway. Slipping the Escort was robbed.

13 June 2023

The harbinger of nothing

Thanks to Chris for the organising and recruiting, spreadsheets, costing and variance analysis he’s put in to make this happen.

With my favourite song barely in the top 50, two of my top 32 in the 190s, my favourite song from this decade outside the top 200, and only one song from my favourite two albums making it through… I look forward to my next quadrennial reminder that when it comes to The Nation’s Favourite, I am not The Nation. (Although this probably applies to anything that could be voted on.)

Having said that, one of the obvious most popular choices is in the upper reaches of my top ten, so I’ll be backing it for the win.

13 June 2023

jodrell banksy

Perpetually mystified by ‘I, Trog’s Barnet-FC-level rankings; and as I must be one of those flagged as voting ‘an astonishing number of times,’ that means I’m the only one who voted for it? Not sure how I’m going to replace that ping! of dopamine that comes on clicking on the words ‘Awkward Sean’ now that the baguette dilemma is on to the main course…

13 June 2023

DICK Quax RUNNING SHOES

‘A Country Practice’ needs a wholesale management overhaul. Seeing this once mighty number scrapping with the likes of ‘If I Had Possession Over Pancake Day’ is heartbreaking.

13 June 2023

dr DEsperate

Disappointed that the song which contains my favourite line ever came in at 33, but I don’t suppose there’s anything I can do about it. Until next time.

13 June 2023

Just another lackey

Well organised CtSO! Playlist of the 32 created and set to shuffle to avoid chronological bias.

No joy for Leeuwarden this year – the world championships are being held in Taipei and the song is an unlucky 33rd……

13 June 2023

Telly Savalas

‘Broadstairs’ is one of my absolute least favourites, genuinely surprised it’s qualified.

‘Multitude’ ranking below ‘Toestub’ is both baffling and hilarious.

13 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

You’re welcome. As a little exercise, I had a look at the votes from the ‘big voters’. Half of the votes came in from about 6% of those people who took part; that doesn’t sound much, but it’s a ‘long tail’ that’s about normal in these exercises. 6% is 151 people, who I wouldn’t be surprised to find out include many of the folks most active on this site, not that we’ll ever know.

So how did those 151 people vote?

Interestingly, very similarly to the two thousand people who provided the other half of the votes. The same songs formed the top 12, in an order that’s not drastically different. Only a couple of songs did a lot better with the big voters: Joy In Leeuwarden would comfortably have made the qualifiers on just their votes, and Descent Of The Stiperstones would have crept in too. But we’d have lost Restless Legs. At the bottom, nothing much would have changed.

Not sure if this proves anything, but I found it interesting nevertheless.

13 June 2023

Transit full of keith

Stiperstones, Gwatkin, Depressed Beyond Tablets, Monmore, Umberstone Covert, Surging, Monmore, Squabble Fest, to me, stand head and shoulders above some of the qualifiers, like Capel Curig, Restless Legs, Knobheads, and Midnight Mass Murder – good though they are. I’m trying to work out what the quality is, and best I can come up with is “the ones I can, want to, or sometimes have to listen to again the moment they’ve finished”.

13 June 2023

EXXO

What do you notice about those titles, though Keith, particularly in relation to the choruses or the main laughs in the songs? The way the voting format highlights particular memories of chuckles within the titles could be decisive in many cases. How many times have you heard someone start (and often finish) their supposed appreciation of HMHB with “hurhur great titles”?

I would imagine that if Gwatkin were titled ‘Cresta’ or Constance was ‘Midge Ure’ they would finish at least ten to fifteen places higher in such a vote.

13 June 2023

Brumbiscuit

NO LILAC HARRY QUINN!!!

(Throws toys out of pram…)

13 June 2023

EXXO

“a few came up an exceptional number of times, possibly due to…”

Come on, I can’t be the only one who did this and knew how? And if I was, which I doubt, you can pretty much work it out from the figures Chris gave on my voting above.

13 June 2023

BAD LOSER

Easy explanation for ‘Broadstairs’ (#25). While it is far from their greatest song lyrically, it’s a ‘Great pacy number to open the show’.

13 June 2023

THE BASTARD IN THE HAT

@Exxo #30: It really is possible that you were the only one who even went looking for a way to arrange rematches artificially. I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.

@Exxo #28: I think an unrecognisable song title could be a major drawback (as well as your point that humorous/punchy titles are a benefit). For example, I had to go off and look up Malayan Jelutong before I voted on it — “oh, it’s that one, that beats bloody Bob Todd all day long”. I don’t suppose these effects would make a huge change to the qualifiers, but something has to explain RSVP, Emergency Locksmith, Third Track etc being in the lowest 20% (for pity’s sake).

13 June 2023

Lux inferior

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if all three ‘lucky losers’ came from the relatively unpopular 1995-2000 era. Definitely Capel Curig (56th in 2019) & Look Dad (49th in 2019), and possibly Irk (33rd last time), although Terminus (31st) could once again have been criminally underrated.

Anyhow, for no reason whatsoever, here’s how I’d bet on the remaining 32 runners. Overround of just under 150%, which might seem a rip-off, but is typical of what you’d expect in a field of this size (the average overround for the past twenty Grand Nationals is around 150%, for 40 runner fields in most instances). I’m convinced Oblong will win at a canter.

Oblong 10/11
TLATEOTT 9/2
NSD 5/1
AOR 15/2
Evening of Swing 14/1
Trad. Arr. Tune 14/1
JDOG 16/1
ETABR 22/1
24 Hour GP 25/1
Chatteris 25/1
DPAK 33/1
MMM 50/1
Evening Sun 66/1
Bad Wools 66/1
Restless Legs 66/1
Wrong Grave 66/1
Trumpton Riots 66/1
Bob Wilson 100/1
Vagaries 100/1
Terminus 100/1
Paintball 150/1
Knobheads 200/1
Eno 200/1
Vitas G 200/1
Dickie Davies 200/1
Fred Titmus 250/1
Look Dad 250/1
Irk the Purists 500/1
Bob Todd 500/1
Time Flies By 500/1
Broadstairs 500/1
Capel Curig 1000/1

13 June 2023

EXXO

I certainly didn’t go looking for it, but I have a vague memory that I noticed the loophole by accident in 2015 when I voted a lot more, before being told that amount of voting was pointless. I did not exploit the loophole then, but did this time just for the halibut knowing that in all likelihood it would be obvious. I’ll be surprised it’s just me though. Has to be a significant percentage of us who worked out which pool tables could give free games, and how to get them, within weeks of arriving at Uni?

13 June 2023

EXXO

Wat’s that Lux about 180% overround at a glance? Nice work if you can get it. But there’s two there that I would make good money on ‘back-to-lay’ – ETABR and FWIC

13 June 2023

Lux inferior

@Exxo – marginally under 150% overround, by my calculations. As I say, not uncommon for such a field size, albeit weighted heavily in the layers’ favour.

After posting, the one that stood out to me as being overpriced was ETABR. My odds were based on the fact that, although it got to the semis last time, it had a relatively easy draw and only finished tenth in the Baguette Dilemma Round. As for Chatteris, I thought I’d priced it up rather cagily.

13 June 2023

EXXO

Like I said I didn’t go looking for it. Cos I didn’t want to.

13 June 2023

EXXO

Soz @Lux – my odds-obsessed eyes went so direct to your prices that I never read your 2nd para and forgot I hadn’t!! Very telling.

13 June 2023

EXXO

@BitH – I meant to mention alliterative titles too. Like rhyme, we almost have these things built in to our aesthetics.

13 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

Come on, I can’t be the only one who did this and knew how?

Prepare to be surprised, it was just you. As TBITH says: “It really is possible that you were the only one… I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.”

Even the three people who voted the most, and they voted thousands of times more than you, did not ‘move the needle’ much more than 100 votes for or against any particular song. And usually, when they did, it was because they were voting for a song that is generally considered to be one of the better ones, and against a song that unsurprisingly appears towards the bottom …in other words, they didn’t have any unusual agenda. For example, the top voter nearly always voted against Carry On Cremating, etc., and seemed to like Trumpton, JDOG, Oblong, etc. The two most prolific voters both seemed to like Harry Quinn, the second most prolific Umberstone, and the third I, Trog, but we all have our favourites and those were among the few outliers against the general voting. There were even fewer anomalies when it came to voting against a song – the third most prolific voter didn’t seem to like King of Hi Viz for some reason, but despite contributing several times the votes that you piled in with, they didn’t vote against it even a third of the amount that you voted against Chatteris.

So yes, it was just you. If it moved the needle at all, it was just to bring forward the day when I get exasperated with all this shit.

13 June 2023

EXXO

Apologies for your exasperation and that of anyone who believes in the fairness of anonymous online polls. Sincerely. I won’t do it again (but would suggest you use non-anonymous means, which you are )

I really, really tried not to be naughty, and when I was naughty I did it for an aggregate of a couple of hours in such an obvious nihilistic way – no change of IP etc – that it has drawn attention to a loophole at least.

13 June 2023

Chris The Siteowner

I would imagine that if Gwatkin were titled ‘Cresta’ or Constance was ‘Midge Ure’ they would finish at least ten to fifteen places higher in such a vote.

That’s for sure, you’re right there Exxo, and it’s a real shame. I think the songs it hurts the hardest are the older and slightly more obscurer ones (think 1990s albums) where the titles don’t appear in the songs at all (Multitude, Song For Europe, etc). However, the ‘skips’ were much higher this time, so that might have helped.

13 June 2023

paul f

I think that’s another reason I’m not so keen on the BDR. I suspect people tend to “skip” when they get two such songs, but if they get a song they like vs one of these, they’ll go for the song they like. And a format that involves mass repeat voting doesn’t lend itself to people checking both songs out before making a choice, as it slows the process massively.

13 June 2023

Ferencváros fan

@TFOK: I’m closely aligned with you when it comes to faves missing out, but I would add Grafting Haddock. It was a grower for me from TVY, but is now right up there in my top 10. Hearing it live for the first time (Camden) will always be a personal highlight of 2023.

Surging is top 5 for me. Tour Jacket is top 10. I thought the former would make the cut but I knew the latter didn’t stand a chance, and I never expect to hear it live. However what they have in common, (@Dr D) is that, depending on my mood, one or t’other contains my favourite lyric. It’s ‘Is your child…?’ or ‘Are you knackered man…?’

@Lux I cannot argue with your betting analysis, and OOD is (unsurprisingly) my other fave from TVR but as a steadfast non-favourite backer I’ll have a punt on ETABR, e/w if possible, ie to make the semis with 4 to pay.

Huge thanks @CtSO for your efforts in staging this competition. I was too new to the party to truly appreciate it in 2019 but I’m loving it now, notwithstanding lingering, and probably everlasting, imposter syndrome…

13 June 2023

Dick Quax Running Shoes

In the mini-competition of songs that definitely don’t, or arguably don’t, have any lyrics ‘Busy Little Market Town’ (190) was the runaway winner this time out.

14 June 2023

Dick Quax Running Shoes

Also, a full seven songs in the 2023 Baguette Dilemma Round won more of their matches than the best-performing song in the 2019 edition, which won 78.2% of its contests. Interesting to me.

14 June 2023

Lux inferior

@FF – Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to be taking bets. Just as well really, as I’ve clearly made a rick with my pricing of ETABR if it immediately stood out as value to great minds such as yourself & Exxo. If I were a bookie, I’d be imploring my traders to ‘get the odds cut, get the fuckin’ odds cut’. And I’d also be engaged in some serious hedging.

14 June 2023

FERENCVáROS FAN

@Lux: Thanks all the same for running this virtual book, which will add a bit of spice to the knock-out rounds for me. It will be interesting to see if my bet proves to be an example of each way thievery at its best, or an all-too-familiar case of a 22/1 shot being 22/1 for a very good reason. Still hopeful of meeting you in person later in the year, although I’m not due to come out to play again till Wolvo. In the meantime, please feel the love of your fellow Biscuiteers, and keep fighting.

14 June 2023

Lux inferior

Thank you for your very kind words, FF. I’m almost tempted to lay your bet!

Very much hoping to make the Wolvo gig myself (I believe there are still tickets available), but unable to make definite plans just yet. Don’t you worry, I’m still battling away – despite the horrendous state of this country after 13 years of Tory misrule, there’s still plenty of good stuff to keep going for :)

14 June 2023

IRISH NIALL

@CtSO @Exxo -Y’know I was thinking something very similar …that songs where the hook isn’t immediate from the title may hobble songs mentioned like Multitude and Malayan Jelutong.

In some bizarre alternate universe where a major label were to agree to release say Fix It So She Dreams of Me as a single it’d be on condition it’s retitled something like Gok Wan Acolytes (Fix It So She Dreams of Me) so punters in the old days could find or describe it in the record shop -or find it within three clicks contemporaneously.

14 June 2023

Transit full of keith

If nothing else, this is a chance to reflect that the unforgettable lyric “the high-pitched lamentations of an unbalanced Lincoln woman, who nurses injured buzzards back to health inside her dead child’s wardrobe” appears in their 213th-rated song – eighth from the bottom of the list. Absolute unique quality running from top to bottom of the list, like letters through a stick of rock.

14 June 2023

schoon

Surely the feelgood story of the cup so far is Visitor for Mr Edmonds. It took on other songs without even being music, and won 8.6% of the time.

14 June 2023

parsfan

A wee suggestion, rather than making people pass a test before letting them vote, how about next time we have a line from the lyrics or alt title underneath the song title.

The Bane of Constance
(Midge Ure looks like a milk thief)
V
Vatican Broadside
(Slipknot)

We could even spend the three and a half years between the end of this tournament and the start of the next one arguing over what line/alt title to best represent each song.

Who’d have thought that folk who follow a highly unfashionable band wouldn’t all like the same songs?

15 June 2023

dr DEsperate

Good idea, @PF. It would probably take less than three and a half years to paste in the lines already chosen to head the discussion page for each song (“Not long now before lollipop men are called Darren” for ‘Totnes Bickering Fair’, “Trying to be Mansfield’s very own Steve Malkmus” for ‘Lark Descending’, etc).

15 June 2023

Billy Webfoot

Still weeping that Improv Workshop Gobshites only made it to 100. In my worthless opinion its one of HMHBs finest with a killer bass part and one of my favourite little guitar licks ever.

Doubly depressed that Nigel apparently couldnt even remember the song when asked about it.

And Tonight Matthew only made it to 97? Im feeling bitter

15 June 2023

Injured buzzard

@TFoK Great lyric that.
Despite my best efforts, SSWHLL also made the bottom 10.

18 June 2023

Liquid Greek

@ BILLY WEBFOOT Couldn’t agree more re Improv Workshop Mimeshow Gobshites, one of my very favourite HMHB songs

19 June 2023

Jeff dreAdnought

To prevent people voting on the title alone, is there a way in future that voters could be forced to scroll through the lyrics and entire discussion thread for each song (to find out/be reminded about all of its many intricacies) before ticking a box to confirm they have read it and then being taken to the actual voting page? A bit like when you have to confirm you’ve read all the Terms and Conditions before you update your phone. Then songs like Epiphany and Slipping the Escort might get the credit they deserve.

20 June 2023

Paul THE BLYTH SPARTANS FAN

“The Bastard Son of Dean Friedman” and “Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess” are 2 of my 3 favourite HMHB songs so as soon as “For What Is Chatteris” gets knocked out my disappointment will be complete.

5 September 2023

And I'll tell you stuff for nothing...

Skip to the most recent comment
(3 years ago by Paul The Blyth Spartans Fan)

Chris The Siteowner
If anyone wants to delve into the data a bit more deeply, let me know what you need to know. Huge thanks go to Rob and Scott for their advice and opinions putting this together (and for stopping me from making it even more complicated!).
12 June 2023
Transit full of keith
OK, I wasn’t expecting them to qualify for the final 32, but in what world is it possible that bangers like ‘Multitude’, ‘£24.99 from Argos’, ‘Get Kramer’, ‘Frequent Electric Trains’ and ‘Malayan Jelutong’ get ranked lower than ‘On Finding the Studio Banjo’?
*shakes fist angrily at public consensus*
(I feel your pain, a disappointing 8 of my Top 20 songs qualified, and some of the 20 didn’t even make the Top 100! – CtSO)
12 June 2023
Lux inferior
I find myself in the Slough of Despond after not a single track from my favourite album, TLP, made the cut. Only two qualifiers from TVY as well, which is something of a surprise.
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
I was also surprised that TVY didn’t do better. The ‘occasionals’ who voted a lot at the beginning tended to throw their lot in heavily with the first album, but I think there was quite a bit of love from them for the most recent output too, which makes sense. As the competition went on, voting was taken over by what we might call ‘regulars’, who spread the love more widely. Here are the songs that qualified:
Back In The D.H.S.S.: 5 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 1 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 2 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 0 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 0 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 2 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 0 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 4 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 1 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 4 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 1 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 4 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 2 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 1 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 0 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 3 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 2 out of 14
…and here are the songs that made the top half of the table:
Back In The D.H.S.S.: 9 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 3 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 5 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 4 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 3 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 6 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 3 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 9 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 2 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 11 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 2 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 11 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 9 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 8 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 6 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 9 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 10 out of 14
That’s a very solid performance from 6 of the last 7 albums, very much including TVY.
12 June 2023
EXXO
I suppose the most comment-worthy aspects from the setlist scholars’ point of view are (i) strong correlation with setlists overall; (ii) that among the exceptions to (i), we can continue to hope that 24HGP might make a return to regular performance one day; (iii) we can’t hold out much hope that your inaugural winner (ACP) will make a regular return to the setlist
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Indeed, the fall of A Country Practice from being the 2011 winner to missing out on the Top 50 is easily the most noteworthy change over the years.
12 June 2023
paul F
Incredible change of opinion on ACP. Also interesting to note that swapping your electric guitar for a banjo will more than halve your popularity.
For me, sub 40% scores for Orme Ascent and Gorse are scandalous, and I’m gutted that Uffington Wassail only just scraped above par. But it all just goes to show the quality of the competition. No crocks of shit here.
12 June 2023
Jet the Viceroy
Disappointed that Slipping the Escort didn’t do better. One of their finest songs ever IMHO (but maybe one of the most melancholic too, which might explain it…)
12 June 2023
parsfan
There’s a few songs that must never have come against each other in my matches, eg Secret Gig, Blood On The Quad, Depressed Beyond Tablets & Fix It So She Dreams Of Me, as I’m sure they each always won.
None of them made the cut, what’s wrong with you lot?
If you consider 50% a pass mark then Mathematically Safe, at 49.9%, doesn’t quite live up to its name. Though at 109/220 does just make the top half of the table.
12 June 2023
BAD LOSER
It has only just occurred to me that ‘Old Tige’ wasn’t included in the draw. It was probably hearing the laughter at the end of that when listening to the first John Peel session that convinced me that they were a band I was really going to get into.
Grounds for having the competition to date annulled and redrawn?
12 June 2023
EXXO
It would probably win a Jim Reeves popularity contest. Hopefully the final in the Johnny Cash contest would not be between two novelty hits.
12 June 2023
schoon
Knobheads on Quiz Shows?!?
David Wainwright’s Feet ten places higher than Footprints?
Letting people vote is always a bad iidea.
Thanks CtSO, despite my compulsory whinging, this is great and I can’t wait for the knockouts.
12 June 2023
old tige
@Parsfan Indeed, that is amazing that Mathematically Safe is the first under 50%.
On a similar note, it is a massive letdown that Massive Letdown lost on a technicality.
12 June 2023
old tige
I mean, this round was named after a song on Urge for Offal. Shouldn’t the host country get a berth in the 32, especially since Westward Ho! actually is in the top 32?
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Top, top idea. Definitely one to consider for next time.
12 June 2023
The Skiver
Bugger. I thought today was the 11th. I seem to have wasted half an hour earlier today…
12 June 2023
Pirx The Purist
Some major disappointments there.
Mr. Cave and Jelutong not even in the top 200?
ITMA, Goa, Nove, Reasons, Mars Ultras, Wraith outside the top 150?
Mileage Chart, Reflections in the bottom half of the table?
Clichéd, Breaking News not breaking into the Hot 100?
Escort only just getting above 50?
I wonder if it’s been skewed by Lammo’s intervention?
Either way, the line-up for the next round looks as disconcertingly dull and predictable as the UEFA Champions’ League. Not sure if I’ll bother voting beyond the BDR…
12 June 2023
Achilles the Gecko
Justice for Fix it so she dreams of me and Tess of the Dormobiles!
12 June 2023
Woodnoggin
I’m surprised by Swerving the Checkatrade’s performance. It always struck me as a bit throwaway. Slipping the Escort was robbed.
13 June 2023
The harbinger of nothing
Thanks to Chris for the organising and recruiting, spreadsheets, costing and variance analysis he’s put in to make this happen.
With my favourite song barely in the top 50, two of my top 32 in the 190s, my favourite song from this decade outside the top 200, and only one song from my favourite two albums making it through… I look forward to my next quadrennial reminder that when it comes to The Nation’s Favourite, I am not The Nation. (Although this probably applies to anything that could be voted on.)
Having said that, one of the obvious most popular choices is in the upper reaches of my top ten, so I’ll be backing it for the win.
13 June 2023
jodrell banksy
Perpetually mystified by ‘I, Trog’s Barnet-FC-level rankings; and as I must be one of those flagged as voting ‘an astonishing number of times,’ that means I’m the only one who voted for it? Not sure how I’m going to replace that ping! of dopamine that comes on clicking on the words ‘Awkward Sean’ now that the baguette dilemma is on to the main course…
13 June 2023
DICK Quax RUNNING SHOES
‘A Country Practice’ needs a wholesale management overhaul. Seeing this once mighty number scrapping with the likes of ‘If I Had Possession Over Pancake Day’ is heartbreaking.
13 June 2023
dr DEsperate
Disappointed that the song which contains my favourite line ever came in at 33, but I don’t suppose there’s anything I can do about it. Until next time.
13 June 2023
Just another lackey
Well organised CtSO! Playlist of the 32 created and set to shuffle to avoid chronological bias.
No joy for Leeuwarden this year – the world championships are being held in Taipei and the song is an unlucky 33rd……
13 June 2023
Telly Savalas
‘Broadstairs’ is one of my absolute least favourites, genuinely surprised it’s qualified.
‘Multitude’ ranking below ‘Toestub’ is both baffling and hilarious.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
You’re welcome. As a little exercise, I had a look at the votes from the ‘big voters’. Half of the votes came in from about 6% of those people who took part; that doesn’t sound much, but it’s a ‘long tail’ that’s about normal in these exercises. 6% is 151 people, who I wouldn’t be surprised to find out include many of the folks most active on this site, not that we’ll ever know.
So how did those 151 people vote?
Interestingly, very similarly to the two thousand people who provided the other half of the votes. The same songs formed the top 12, in an order that’s not drastically different. Only a couple of songs did a lot better with the big voters: Joy In Leeuwarden would comfortably have made the qualifiers on just their votes, and Descent Of The Stiperstones would have crept in too. But we’d have lost Restless Legs. At the bottom, nothing much would have changed.
Not sure if this proves anything, but I found it interesting nevertheless.
13 June 2023
Transit full of keith
Stiperstones, Gwatkin, Depressed Beyond Tablets, Monmore, Umberstone Covert, Surging, Monmore, Squabble Fest, to me, stand head and shoulders above some of the qualifiers, like Capel Curig, Restless Legs, Knobheads, and Midnight Mass Murder – good though they are. I’m trying to work out what the quality is, and best I can come up with is “the ones I can, want to, or sometimes have to listen to again the moment they’ve finished”.
13 June 2023
EXXO
What do you notice about those titles, though Keith, particularly in relation to the choruses or the main laughs in the songs? The way the voting format highlights particular memories of chuckles within the titles could be decisive in many cases. How many times have you heard someone start (and often finish) their supposed appreciation of HMHB with “hurhur great titles”?
I would imagine that if Gwatkin were titled ‘Cresta’ or Constance was ‘Midge Ure’ they would finish at least ten to fifteen places higher in such a vote.
13 June 2023
Brumbiscuit
NO LILAC HARRY QUINN!!!
(Throws toys out of pram…)
13 June 2023
EXXO
“a few came up an exceptional number of times, possibly due to…”
Come on, I can’t be the only one who did this and knew how? And if I was, which I doubt, you can pretty much work it out from the figures Chris gave on my voting above.
13 June 2023
BAD LOSER
Easy explanation for ‘Broadstairs’ (#25). While it is far from their greatest song lyrically, it’s a ‘Great pacy number to open the show’.
13 June 2023
THE BASTARD IN THE HAT
@Exxo #30: It really is possible that you were the only one who even went looking for a way to arrange rematches artificially. I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.
@Exxo #28: I think an unrecognisable song title could be a major drawback (as well as your point that humorous/punchy titles are a benefit). For example, I had to go off and look up Malayan Jelutong before I voted on it — “oh, it’s that one, that beats bloody Bob Todd all day long”. I don’t suppose these effects would make a huge change to the qualifiers, but something has to explain RSVP, Emergency Locksmith, Third Track etc being in the lowest 20% (for pity’s sake).
13 June 2023
Lux inferior
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if all three ‘lucky losers’ came from the relatively unpopular 1995-2000 era. Definitely Capel Curig (56th in 2019) & Look Dad (49th in 2019), and possibly Irk (33rd last time), although Terminus (31st) could once again have been criminally underrated.
Anyhow, for no reason whatsoever, here’s how I’d bet on the remaining 32 runners. Overround of just under 150%, which might seem a rip-off, but is typical of what you’d expect in a field of this size (the average overround for the past twenty Grand Nationals is around 150%, for 40 runner fields in most instances). I’m convinced Oblong will win at a canter.
Oblong 10/11
TLATEOTT 9/2
NSD 5/1
AOR 15/2
Evening of Swing 14/1
Trad. Arr. Tune 14/1
JDOG 16/1
ETABR 22/1
24 Hour GP 25/1
Chatteris 25/1
DPAK 33/1
MMM 50/1
Evening Sun 66/1
Bad Wools 66/1
Restless Legs 66/1
Wrong Grave 66/1
Trumpton Riots 66/1
Bob Wilson 100/1
Vagaries 100/1
Terminus 100/1
Paintball 150/1
Knobheads 200/1
Eno 200/1
Vitas G 200/1
Dickie Davies 200/1
Fred Titmus 250/1
Look Dad 250/1
Irk the Purists 500/1
Bob Todd 500/1
Time Flies By 500/1
Broadstairs 500/1
Capel Curig 1000/1
13 June 2023
EXXO
I certainly didn’t go looking for it, but I have a vague memory that I noticed the loophole by accident in 2015 when I voted a lot more, before being told that amount of voting was pointless. I did not exploit the loophole then, but did this time just for the halibut knowing that in all likelihood it would be obvious. I’ll be surprised it’s just me though. Has to be a significant percentage of us who worked out which pool tables could give free games, and how to get them, within weeks of arriving at Uni?
13 June 2023
EXXO
Wat’s that Lux about 180% overround at a glance? Nice work if you can get it. But there’s two there that I would make good money on ‘back-to-lay’ – ETABR and FWIC
13 June 2023
Lux inferior
@Exxo – marginally under 150% overround, by my calculations. As I say, not uncommon for such a field size, albeit weighted heavily in the layers’ favour.
After posting, the one that stood out to me as being overpriced was ETABR. My odds were based on the fact that, although it got to the semis last time, it had a relatively easy draw and only finished tenth in the Baguette Dilemma Round. As for Chatteris, I thought I’d priced it up rather cagily.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Like I said I didn’t go looking for it. Cos I didn’t want to.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Soz @Lux – my odds-obsessed eyes went so direct to your prices that I never read your 2nd para and forgot I hadn’t!! Very telling.
13 June 2023
EXXO
@BitH – I meant to mention alliterative titles too. Like rhyme, we almost have these things built in to our aesthetics.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Come on, I can’t be the only one who did this and knew how?
Prepare to be surprised, it was just you. As TBITH says: “It really is possible that you were the only one… I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.”
Even the three people who voted the most, and they voted thousands of times more than you, did not ‘move the needle’ much more than 100 votes for or against any particular song. And usually, when they did, it was because they were voting for a song that is generally considered to be one of the better ones, and against a song that unsurprisingly appears towards the bottom …in other words, they didn’t have any unusual agenda. For example, the top voter nearly always voted against Carry On Cremating, etc., and seemed to like Trumpton, JDOG, Oblong, etc. The two most prolific voters both seemed to like Harry Quinn, the second most prolific Umberstone, and the third I, Trog, but we all have our favourites and those were among the few outliers against the general voting. There were even fewer anomalies when it came to voting against a song – the third most prolific voter didn’t seem to like King of Hi Viz for some reason, but despite contributing several times the votes that you piled in with, they didn’t vote against it even a third of the amount that you voted against Chatteris.
So yes, it was just you. If it moved the needle at all, it was just to bring forward the day when I get exasperated with all this shit.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Apologies for your exasperation and that of anyone who believes in the fairness of anonymous online polls. Sincerely. I won’t do it again (but would suggest you use non-anonymous means, which you are )
I really, really tried not to be naughty, and when I was naughty I did it for an aggregate of a couple of hours in such an obvious nihilistic way – no change of IP etc – that it has drawn attention to a loophole at least.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
I would imagine that if Gwatkin were titled ‘Cresta’ or Constance was ‘Midge Ure’ they would finish at least ten to fifteen places higher in such a vote.
That’s for sure, you’re right there Exxo, and it’s a real shame. I think the songs it hurts the hardest are the older and slightly more obscurer ones (think 1990s albums) where the titles don’t appear in the songs at all (Multitude, Song For Europe, etc). However, the ‘skips’ were much higher this time, so that might have helped.
13 June 2023
paul f
I think that’s another reason I’m not so keen on the BDR. I suspect people tend to “skip” when they get two such songs, but if they get a song they like vs one of these, they’ll go for the song they like. And a format that involves mass repeat voting doesn’t lend itself to people checking both songs out before making a choice, as it slows the process massively.
13 June 2023
Ferencváros fan
@TFOK: I’m closely aligned with you when it comes to faves missing out, but I would add Grafting Haddock. It was a grower for me from TVY, but is now right up there in my top 10. Hearing it live for the first time (Camden) will always be a personal highlight of 2023.
Surging is top 5 for me. Tour Jacket is top 10. I thought the former would make the cut but I knew the latter didn’t stand a chance, and I never expect to hear it live. However what they have in common, (@Dr D) is that, depending on my mood, one or t’other contains my favourite lyric. It’s ‘Is your child…?’ or ‘Are you knackered man…?’
@Lux I cannot argue with your betting analysis, and OOD is (unsurprisingly) my other fave from TVR but as a steadfast non-favourite backer I’ll have a punt on ETABR, e/w if possible, ie to make the semis with 4 to pay.
Huge thanks @CtSO for your efforts in staging this competition. I was too new to the party to truly appreciate it in 2019 but I’m loving it now, notwithstanding lingering, and probably everlasting, imposter syndrome…
13 June 2023
Dick Quax Running Shoes
In the mini-competition of songs that definitely don’t, or arguably don’t, have any lyrics ‘Busy Little Market Town’ (190) was the runaway winner this time out.
14 June 2023
Dick Quax Running Shoes
Also, a full seven songs in the 2023 Baguette Dilemma Round won more of their matches than the best-performing song in the 2019 edition, which won 78.2% of its contests. Interesting to me.
14 June 2023
Lux inferior
@FF – Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to be taking bets. Just as well really, as I’ve clearly made a rick with my pricing of ETABR if it immediately stood out as value to great minds such as yourself & Exxo. If I were a bookie, I’d be imploring my traders to ‘get the odds cut, get the fuckin’ odds cut’. And I’d also be engaged in some serious hedging.
14 June 2023
FERENCVáROS FAN
@Lux: Thanks all the same for running this virtual book, which will add a bit of spice to the knock-out rounds for me. It will be interesting to see if my bet proves to be an example of each way thievery at its best, or an all-too-familiar case of a 22/1 shot being 22/1 for a very good reason. Still hopeful of meeting you in person later in the year, although I’m not due to come out to play again till Wolvo. In the meantime, please feel the love of your fellow Biscuiteers, and keep fighting.
14 June 2023
Lux inferior
Thank you for your very kind words, FF. I’m almost tempted to lay your bet!
Very much hoping to make the Wolvo gig myself (I believe there are still tickets available), but unable to make definite plans just yet. Don’t you worry, I’m still battling away – despite the horrendous state of this country after 13 years of Tory misrule, there’s still plenty of good stuff to keep going for :)
14 June 2023
IRISH NIALL
@CtSO @Exxo -Y’know I was thinking something very similar …that songs where the hook isn’t immediate from the title may hobble songs mentioned like Multitude and Malayan Jelutong.
In some bizarre alternate universe where a major label were to agree to release say Fix It So She Dreams of Me as a single it’d be on condition it’s retitled something like Gok Wan Acolytes (Fix It So She Dreams of Me) so punters in the old days could find or describe it in the record shop -or find it within three clicks contemporaneously.
14 June 2023
Transit full of keith
If nothing else, this is a chance to reflect that the unforgettable lyric “the high-pitched lamentations of an unbalanced Lincoln woman, who nurses injured buzzards back to health inside her dead child’s wardrobe” appears in their 213th-rated song – eighth from the bottom of the list. Absolute unique quality running from top to bottom of the list, like letters through a stick of rock.
14 June 2023
schoon
Surely the feelgood story of the cup so far is Visitor for Mr Edmonds. It took on other songs without even being music, and won 8.6% of the time.
14 June 2023
parsfan
A wee suggestion, rather than making people pass a test before letting them vote, how about next time we have a line from the lyrics or alt title underneath the song title.
The Bane of Constance
(Midge Ure looks like a milk thief)
V
Vatican Broadside
(Slipknot)
We could even spend the three and a half years between the end of this tournament and the start of the next one arguing over what line/alt title to best represent each song.
Who’d have thought that folk who follow a highly unfashionable band wouldn’t all like the same songs?
15 June 2023
dr DEsperate
Good idea, @PF. It would probably take less than three and a half years to paste in the lines already chosen to head the discussion page for each song (“Not long now before lollipop men are called Darren” for ‘Totnes Bickering Fair’, “Trying to be Mansfield’s very own Steve Malkmus” for ‘Lark Descending’, etc).
15 June 2023
Billy Webfoot
Still weeping that Improv Workshop Gobshites only made it to 100. In my worthless opinion its one of HMHBs finest with a killer bass part and one of my favourite little guitar licks ever.
Doubly depressed that Nigel apparently couldnt even remember the song when asked about it.
And Tonight Matthew only made it to 97? Im feeling bitter
15 June 2023
Injured buzzard
@TFoK Great lyric that.
Despite my best efforts, SSWHLL also made the bottom 10.
18 June 2023
Liquid Greek
@ BILLY WEBFOOT Couldn’t agree more re Improv Workshop Mimeshow Gobshites, one of my very favourite HMHB songs
19 June 2023
Jeff dreAdnought
To prevent people voting on the title alone, is there a way in future that voters could be forced to scroll through the lyrics and entire discussion thread for each song (to find out/be reminded about all of its many intricacies) before ticking a box to confirm they have read it and then being taken to the actual voting page? A bit like when you have to confirm you’ve read all the Terms and Conditions before you update your phone. Then songs like Epiphany and Slipping the Escort might get the credit they deserve.
20 June 2023
Paul THE BLYTH SPARTANS FAN
“The Bastard Son of Dean Friedman” and “Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess” are 2 of my 3 favourite HMHB songs so as soon as “For What Is Chatteris” gets knocked out my disappointment will be complete.
5 September 2023

The Lux Familiar Cup 2023: Baguette Dilemma Round results

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