And we have our qualifiers!
First of all, a recap on what we did: for four weeks to 11 June 2023, anyone could vote on any number of random ‘Song A vs Song B’ matchups, so that we could eventually order the songs based on the percentage of matchups that they won. Hundreds of people took part: we can’t know how many, but they voted from 2,357 different IP addresses, so it was almost certainly over 2,000 people. The raw data showed 484,618 matches. During the first evening of voting, the votes were coming in at over 25,000 per hour – that’s 7 votes per second!
The final data was adjusted in a couple of ways. There were 24,090 possible matchups between 220 songs; all of them came up at least 5 times, but a few came up an exceptional number of times, possibly due to the random tie generator not being that good, or possibly something to do with stuff being held in website browser memory. So for those few ties which came up over 100 times, the results were ‘downsampled’ to that level. This lost us about 1,200 votes (0.25% of the total). Also, although some people voted an astonishing number of times, we decided that this was fine if there was no extraordinary pattern in their voting. One person did show this trait, so those votes were discarded. Again, this was only a fraction of a percent of the overall vote total.
Overall, after the adjustments, every song showed up between 4,210 and 4,651 times.
Once we had a table, there was one further rule to apply to decide the qualifiers, as announced in the Tournament Preview. This was to guarantee that at least six songs would qualify for the final 32 from each of these ‘eras’ in the band’s history: 1985–1993, 1995–2000, 2001–2008, and 2011–2022. The years are slightly arbitrary, but each has about the same number of songs. Those 24 songs would be joined by the 8 highest ranked songs not otherwise qualifying. In the end, this meant that the songs that ranked 28, 30 and 31 did not qualify, instead being replaced by the songs ranked 37, 39 and 50, which are from eras which had fewer than 6 songs in the top 32.
As in previous competitions, we haven’t shown the rankings of the 32 qualifiers at this stage, because we don’t want to influence the knockout stages.
The Qualifiers
1985–1993
- 99% Of Gargoyles Look Like Bob Todd
- All I Want For Christmas Is A Dukla Prague Away Kit
- Dickie Davies Eyes
- Everything’s AOR
- Fuckin’ ‘Ell It’s Fred Titmus
- Outbreak of Vitas Gerulaitis
- The Trumpton Riots
- Time Flies By (When You’re A Driver Of A Train)
1995–2000
- Bottleneck at Capel Curig
- Eno Collaboration
- Irk The Purists
- Look Dad No Tunes
- Paintball’s Coming Home
- Twenty Four Hour Garage People
2001–2008
- Bob Wilson – Anchorman
- Evening Of Swing (Has Been Cancelled)
- For What Is Chatteris…
- Joy Division Oven Gloves
- National Shite Day
- Restless Legs
- She’s In Broadstairs
- Tending The Wrong Grave For 23 Years
- The Light at the End of the Tunnel (is the Light of an Oncoming Train)
- Them’s The Vagaries
- We Built This Village On A Trad. Arr. Tune
- When The Evening Sun Goes Down
2011–2022
- Every Time a Bell Rings
- Knobheads on Quiz Shows
- Midnight Mass Murder
- Oblong of Dreams
- Rock And Roll Is Full Of Bad Wools
- Terminus
The Full Table
| Song | Wins | |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 84.3% | |
| 2 | 82.2% | |
| 3 | 79.4% | |
| 4 | 78.9% | |
| 5 | 78.8% | |
| 6 | 78.7% | |
| 7 | 78.5% | |
| 8 | 76.7% | |
| 9 | 76.7% | |
| 10 | 76.0% | |
| 11 | 75.5% | |
| 12 | 74.8% | |
| 13 | 72.0% | |
| 14 | 71.6% | |
| 15 | 69.6% | |
| 16 | 69.6% | |
| 17 | 69.5% | |
| 18 | 69.1% | |
| 19 | 68.6% | |
| 20 | 68.6% | |
| 21 | 68.6% | |
| 22 | 68.5% | |
| 23 | 68.2% | |
| 24 | 67.7% | |
| 25 | 67.2% | |
| 26 | 67.2% | |
| 27 | 66.2% | |
| 28 | The Bastard Son Of Dean Friedman | 66.1% |
| 29 | 66.0% | |
| 30 | Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess | 65.9% |
| 31 | Westward Ho! – Massive Letdown | 65.9% |
| 32 | 65.8% | |
| 33 | Joy In Leeuwarden (We Are Ready) | 65.6% |
| 34 | Running Order Squabble Fest | 64.7% |
| 35 | Swerving the Checkatrade | 64.1% |
| 36 | I’m Getting Buried In The Morning | 64.0% |
| 37 | 64.0% | |
| 38 | Man of Constant Sorrow (With a Garage in Constant Use) | 63.6% |
| 39 | 63.3% | |
| 40 | Asparagus Next Left | 63.1% |
| 41 | Depressed Beyond Tablets | 63.0% |
| 42 | Descent Of The Stiperstones | 62.7% |
| 43 | Took Problem Chimp To Ideal Home Show | 62.6% |
| 44 | Surging out of Convalescence | 62.5% |
| 45 | The Referee’s Alphabet | 62.3% |
| 46 | Vatican Broadside | 62.2% |
| 47 | Slipping The Escort | 62.0% |
| 48 | Lord Hereford’s Knob | 62.0% |
| 49 | Turned Up Clocked On Laid Off | 61.9% |
| 50 | 61.6% | |
| 51 | The Unfortunate Gwatkin | 61.6% |
| 52 | Tommy Walsh’s Eco House | 61.4% |
| 53 | Dead Men Don’t Need Season Tickets | 61.3% |
| 54 | Renfield’s Afoot | 61.2% |
| 55 | A Country Practice | 60.9% |
| 56 | If I Had Possession Over Pancake Day | 60.8% |
| 57 | 27 Yards Of Dental Floss | 60.5% |
| 58 | Awkward Sean | 60.0% |
| 59 | Shit Arm, Bad Tattoo | 59.9% |
| 60 | In a Suffolk Ditch | 59.6% |
| 61 | What Made Colombia Famous… | 59.5% |
| 62 | Tess of the Dormobiles | 59.1% |
| 63 | A Lilac Harry Quinn | 58.9% |
| 64 | Alehouse Futsal | 58.9% |
| 65 | I was a teenage armchair Honved fan | 58.7% |
| 66 | Upon Westminster Bridge | 58.6% |
| 67 | Monmore, Hare’s Running | 58.5% |
| 68 | God Gave Us Life | 58.3% |
| 69 | Harsh Times in Umberstone Covert | 58.2% |
| 70 | CORGI Registered Friends | 58.2% |
| 71 | Hedley Verityesque | 58.2% |
| 72 | Grafting Haddock In The George | 58.2% |
| 73 | Keeping Two Chevrons Apart | 57.3% |
| 74 | Totnes Bickering Fair | 56.8% |
| 75 | The Len Ganley Stance | 56.7% |
| 76 | Fix It So She Dreams Of Me | 55.8% |
| 77 | Bad Review | 55.8% |
| 78 | Sealclubbing | 55.6% |
| 79 | Thy Damnation Slumbereth Not | 55.4% |
| 80 | Four Skinny Indie Kids | 54.7% |
| 81 | San Antonio Foam Party | 54.6% |
| 82 | Little In The Way Of Sunshine | 54.6% |
| 83 | Old Age Killed My Teenage Bride | 54.3% |
| 84 | Paradise Lost (You’re The Reason Why) | 53.8% |
| 85 | The Bane Of Constance | 53.7% |
| 86 | It Makes The Room Look Bigger | 53.6% |
| 87 | Rogation Sunday | 53.5% |
| 88 | Adam Boyle Has Cast Lad Rock Aside | 53.4% |
| 89 | 4AD3DCD | 53.2% |
| 90 | Left Lyrics In The Practice Room | 52.6% |
| 91 | Friday Night And The Gates Are Low | 52.5% |
| 92 | Mate of the Bloke | 52.1% |
| 93 | Uffington Wassail | 51.9% |
| 94 | When I Look At My Baby | 51.9% |
| 95 | Gubba Look-a-likes | 51.9% |
| 96 | Used To Be In Evil Gazebo | 51.8% |
| 97 | Tonight Matthew, I’m going to be with Jesus | 51.8% |
| 98 | Even Men With Steel Hearts | 51.8% |
| 99 | King of Hi-Vis | 51.2% |
| 100 | Improv Workshop Mimeshow Gobshite | 51.2% |
| 101 | I Left My Heart In Papworth General | 50.7% |
| 102 | Prag Vec at the Melkweg | 50.7% |
| 103 | Urge For Offal | 50.7% |
| 104 | Breaking News | 50.6% |
| 105 | Something’s Rotten In The Back of Iceland | 50.5% |
| 106 | It’s Cliched to be Cynical at Christmas | 50.4% |
| 107 | L’Enfer C’Est Les Autres | 50.2% |
| 108 | Ode To Joyce | 50.2% |
| 109 | Mathematically Safe | 49.9% |
| 110 | Tour Jacket with Detachable Sleeves | 49.3% |
| 111 | Persian Rug Sale At The URC | 49.3% |
| 112 | Ordinary to Enschede | 49.0% |
| 113 | Mod. Diff. Vdiff. Hard Severe | 48.8% |
| 114 | I Hate Nerys Hughes (From The Heart) | 48.5% |
| 115 | Blue Badge Abuser | 48.1% |
| 116 | This Leaden Pall | 47.7% |
| 117 | P.R.S. Yearbook – Quick, The Drawbridge | 47.6% |
| 118 | Stuck Up A Hornbeam | 47.6% |
| 119 | Floreat Inertia | 47.5% |
| 120 | Bladderwrack Allowance | 47.3% |
| 121 | The Best Things In Life | 47.2% |
| 122 | A Shropshire Lad | 47.2% |
| 123 | Secret Gig | 47.1% |
| 124 | The Coroner’s Footnote | 46.7% |
| 125 | Albert Hammond Bootleg | 46.7% |
| 126 | Blood on the Quad | 46.7% |
| 127 | CAMRA Man | 46.7% |
| 128 | The Ballad of Climie Fisher | 46.4% |
| 129 | Reflections in A Flat | 46.4% |
| 130 | Yipps (My Baby Got The) | 46.2% |
| 131 | Fun Day in the Park | 46.1% |
| 132 | Rod Hull Is Alive – Why? | 45.8% |
| 133 | The Announcement | 45.6% |
| 134 | 1966 And All That | 45.5% |
| 135 | I Love You Because (You Look Like Jim Reeves) | 45.4% |
| 136 | My Outstretched Arms | 45.4% |
| 137 | Give Us Bubblewrap | 45.1% |
| 138 | Baguette Dilemma For The Booker Prize Guy | 45.1% |
| 139 | Big Man Up Front | 44.9% |
| 140 | With Goth On Our Side | 44.5% |
| 141 | Beneath This Broken Headstone (There Lies A Broken Heart) | 44.3% |
| 142 | David Wainwright’s Feet | 44.0% |
| 143 | Petty Sessions | 43.8% |
| 144 | Deep House Victims Minibus Appeal | 43.7% |
| 145 | Twydale’s Lament | 43.5% |
| 146 | Lark Descending | 43.4% |
| 147 | Mileage Chart | 42.7% |
| 148 | Venus in Flares | 42.3% |
| 149 | Sensitive Outsider | 41.8% |
| 150 | You’re Hard | 41.7% |
| 151 | Turn A Blind Eye | 41.2% |
| 152 | Footprints | 41.0% |
| 153 | Whit Week Malarkey | 41.0% |
| 154 | Excavating Rita | 40.8% |
| 155 | Letters Sent | 40.8% |
| 156 | Sponsoring the Moshpits | 40.7% |
| 157 | D’Ye Ken Ted Moult? | 40.6% |
| 158 | On The ’Roids | 40.3% |
| 159 | Fear My Wraith | 40.2% |
| 160 | Reasons To Be Miserable (Part 10) | 39.6% |
| 161 | Bogus Official | 39.3% |
| 162 | Lock Up Your Mountain Bikes | 39.2% |
| 163 | Let’s Not | 39.0% |
| 164 | I Went To A Wedding… | 38.8% |
| 165 | Token Covid Song | 38.7% |
| 166 | Emerging From Gorse | 38.6% |
| 167 | Jarg Armani | 38.4% |
| 168 | See That My Bike’s Kept Clean | 37.7% |
| 169 | He Who Would Valium Take | 37.4% |
| 170 | Tyrolean Knockabout | 37.1% |
| 171 | On Passing Lilac Urine | 37.1% |
| 172 | Quality Janitor | 37.0% |
| 173 | Arthur’s Farm | 37.0% |
| 174 | Architecture and Morality Ted and Alice | 37.0% |
| 175 | Fretwork Homework | 36.7% |
| 176 | Our Tune | 36.5% |
| 177 | RSVP | 36.1% |
| 178 | M-6-ster | 35.9% |
| 179 | Mars Ultras, You’ll Never Make The Station | 35.7% |
| 180 | Girlfriend’s Finished With Him | 35.3% |
| 181 | Hair Like Brian May Blues | 34.1% |
| 182 | Nove on the Sly | 34.0% |
| 183 | Whiteness Thy Name Is Meltonian | 34.0% |
| 184 | Emergency Locksmith | 33.7% |
| 185 | This One’s For Now | 32.2% |
| 186 | Styx Gig (Seen By My Mates Coming Out Of A) | 31.9% |
| 187 | Soft Verges | 31.8% |
| 188 | Third Track Main Camera Four Minutes | 31.8% |
| 189 | Ecclesiastical Perks | 31.6% |
| 190 | Busy Little Market Town | 31.2% |
| 191 | Song of Encouragement for the Orme Ascent | 31.1% |
| 192 | Moody Chops | 30.7% |
| 193 | On Finding The Studio Banjo | 30.6% |
| 194 | Ready Steady Goa | 30.5% |
| 195 | Worried Man Blues | 30.5% |
| 196 | Faithlift | 30.3% |
| 197 | I, Trog | 30.2% |
| 198 | Numanoid Hang-glide | 29.1% |
| 199 | ITMA | 28.1% |
| 200 | On Reaching The Wensum | 28.0% |
| 201 | £24.99 From Argos | 27.9% |
| 202 | Malayan Jelutong | 27.8% |
| 203 | Christian Rock Concert | 27.4% |
| 204 | Doreen | 27.1% |
| 205 | New York Skiffle | 26.8% |
| 206 | Carry On Cremating | 25.3% |
| 207 | Epiphany | 25.3% |
| 208 | False Grit | 25.1% |
| 209 | Frequent Electric Trains | 24.9% |
| 210 | Mr Cave’s a Window Cleaner Now | 24.7% |
| 211 | Split Single With Happy Lounge Labelmates | 24.6% |
| 212 | Children of Apocalyptic Techstep | 22.7% |
| 213 | Get Kramer | 22.5% |
| 214 | 13 Eurogoths Floating In The Dead Sea | 21.7% |
| 215 | Song For Europe | 21.6% |
| 216 | Theme Tune For Something Or Other | 18.7% |
| 217 | Stavanger Töestub | 17.8% |
| 218 | Multitude | 16.8% |
| 219 | Slight Reprise | 10.3% |
| 220 | Visitor for Mr Edmonds | 8.6% |
What’s next?
The first knockout round of 32 will be later in the summer. Watch this space for the draw and the voting details. If you want to compare the results to previous competitions, you can find the results here:
Chris The Siteowner
If anyone wants to delve into the data a bit more deeply, let me know what you need to know. Huge thanks go to Rob and Scott for their advice and opinions putting this together (and for stopping me from making it even more complicated!).
12 June 2023
Transit full of keith
OK, I wasn’t expecting them to qualify for the final 32, but in what world is it possible that bangers like ‘Multitude’, ‘£24.99 from Argos’, ‘Get Kramer’, ‘Frequent Electric Trains’ and ‘Malayan Jelutong’ get ranked lower than ‘On Finding the Studio Banjo’?
*shakes fist angrily at public consensus*
(I feel your pain, a disappointing 8 of my Top 20 songs qualified, and some of the 20 didn’t even make the Top 100! – CtSO)
12 June 2023
Lux inferior
I find myself in the Slough of Despond after not a single track from my favourite album, TLP, made the cut. Only two qualifiers from TVY as well, which is something of a surprise.
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
I was also surprised that TVY didn’t do better. The ‘occasionals’ who voted a lot at the beginning tended to throw their lot in heavily with the first album, but I think there was quite a bit of love from them for the most recent output too, which makes sense. As the competition went on, voting was taken over by what we might call ‘regulars’, who spread the love more widely. Here are the songs that qualified:
Back In The D.H.S.S.: 5 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 1 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 2 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 0 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 0 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 2 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 0 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 4 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 1 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 4 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 1 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 4 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 2 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 1 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 0 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 3 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 2 out of 14
…and here are the songs that made the top half of the table:
Back In The D.H.S.S.: 9 out of 17
Back Again In The D.H.S.S.: 3 out of 8
ACD: 0 out of 1
Peel Sessions and other one-offs: 0 out of 6
McIntyre, Treadmore And Davitt: 5 out of 10
This Leaden Pall: 4 out of 15
Some Call It Godcore: 3 out of 12
Eno Collaboration EP: 0 out of 2
Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road: 6 out of 14
Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral: 3 out of 13
Look Dad No Tunes EP: 0 out of 2
Trouble Over Bridgwater: 9 out of 16
Editor’s Recommendation EP: 2 out of 6
Cammell Laird Social Club: 11 out of 13
Saucy Haulage Ballads EP: 2 out of 6
Achtung Bono: 11 out of 14
CSI:Ambleside: 9 out of 13
90 Bisodol (Crimond): 8 out of 12
Urge For Offal: 6 out of 13
No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub: 9 out of 13
The Voltarol Years: 10 out of 14
That’s a very solid performance from 6 of the last 7 albums, very much including TVY.
12 June 2023
EXXO
I suppose the most comment-worthy aspects from the setlist scholars’ point of view are (i) strong correlation with setlists overall; (ii) that among the exceptions to (i), we can continue to hope that 24HGP might make a return to regular performance one day; (iii) we can’t hold out much hope that your inaugural winner (ACP) will make a regular return to the setlist
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Indeed, the fall of A Country Practice from being the 2011 winner to missing out on the Top 50 is easily the most noteworthy change over the years.
12 June 2023
paul F
Incredible change of opinion on ACP. Also interesting to note that swapping your electric guitar for a banjo will more than halve your popularity.
For me, sub 40% scores for Orme Ascent and Gorse are scandalous, and I’m gutted that Uffington Wassail only just scraped above par. But it all just goes to show the quality of the competition. No crocks of shit here.
12 June 2023
Jet the Viceroy
Disappointed that Slipping the Escort didn’t do better. One of their finest songs ever IMHO (but maybe one of the most melancholic too, which might explain it…)
12 June 2023
parsfan
There’s a few songs that must never have come against each other in my matches, eg Secret Gig, Blood On The Quad, Depressed Beyond Tablets & Fix It So She Dreams Of Me, as I’m sure they each always won.
None of them made the cut, what’s wrong with you lot?
If you consider 50% a pass mark then Mathematically Safe, at 49.9%, doesn’t quite live up to its name. Though at 109/220 does just make the top half of the table.
12 June 2023
BAD LOSER
It has only just occurred to me that ‘Old Tige’ wasn’t included in the draw. It was probably hearing the laughter at the end of that when listening to the first John Peel session that convinced me that they were a band I was really going to get into.
Grounds for having the competition to date annulled and redrawn?
12 June 2023
EXXO
It would probably win a Jim Reeves popularity contest. Hopefully the final in the Johnny Cash contest would not be between two novelty hits.
12 June 2023
schoon
Knobheads on Quiz Shows?!?
David Wainwright’s Feet ten places higher than Footprints?
Letting people vote is always a bad iidea.
Thanks CtSO, despite my compulsory whinging, this is great and I can’t wait for the knockouts.
12 June 2023
old tige
@Parsfan Indeed, that is amazing that Mathematically Safe is the first under 50%.
On a similar note, it is a massive letdown that Massive Letdown lost on a technicality.
12 June 2023
old tige
I mean, this round was named after a song on Urge for Offal. Shouldn’t the host country get a berth in the 32, especially since Westward Ho! actually is in the top 32?
12 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Top, top idea. Definitely one to consider for next time.
12 June 2023
The Skiver
Bugger. I thought today was the 11th. I seem to have wasted half an hour earlier today…
12 June 2023
Pirx The Purist
Some major disappointments there.
Mr. Cave and Jelutong not even in the top 200?
ITMA, Goa, Nove, Reasons, Mars Ultras, Wraith outside the top 150?
Mileage Chart, Reflections in the bottom half of the table?
Clichéd, Breaking News not breaking into the Hot 100?
Escort only just getting above 50?
I wonder if it’s been skewed by Lammo’s intervention?
Either way, the line-up for the next round looks as disconcertingly dull and predictable as the UEFA Champions’ League. Not sure if I’ll bother voting beyond the BDR…
12 June 2023
Achilles the Gecko
Justice for Fix it so she dreams of me and Tess of the Dormobiles!
12 June 2023
Woodnoggin
I’m surprised by Swerving the Checkatrade’s performance. It always struck me as a bit throwaway. Slipping the Escort was robbed.
13 June 2023
The harbinger of nothing
Thanks to Chris for the organising and recruiting, spreadsheets, costing and variance analysis he’s put in to make this happen.
With my favourite song barely in the top 50, two of my top 32 in the 190s, my favourite song from this decade outside the top 200, and only one song from my favourite two albums making it through… I look forward to my next quadrennial reminder that when it comes to The Nation’s Favourite, I am not The Nation. (Although this probably applies to anything that could be voted on.)
Having said that, one of the obvious most popular choices is in the upper reaches of my top ten, so I’ll be backing it for the win.
13 June 2023
jodrell banksy
Perpetually mystified by ‘I, Trog’s Barnet-FC-level rankings; and as I must be one of those flagged as voting ‘an astonishing number of times,’ that means I’m the only one who voted for it? Not sure how I’m going to replace that ping! of dopamine that comes on clicking on the words ‘Awkward Sean’ now that the baguette dilemma is on to the main course…
13 June 2023
DICK Quax RUNNING SHOES
‘A Country Practice’ needs a wholesale management overhaul. Seeing this once mighty number scrapping with the likes of ‘If I Had Possession Over Pancake Day’ is heartbreaking.
13 June 2023
dr DEsperate
Disappointed that the song which contains my favourite line ever came in at 33, but I don’t suppose there’s anything I can do about it. Until next time.
13 June 2023
Just another lackey
Well organised CtSO! Playlist of the 32 created and set to shuffle to avoid chronological bias.
No joy for Leeuwarden this year – the world championships are being held in Taipei and the song is an unlucky 33rd……
13 June 2023
Telly Savalas
‘Broadstairs’ is one of my absolute least favourites, genuinely surprised it’s qualified.
‘Multitude’ ranking below ‘Toestub’ is both baffling and hilarious.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
You’re welcome. As a little exercise, I had a look at the votes from the ‘big voters’. Half of the votes came in from about 6% of those people who took part; that doesn’t sound much, but it’s a ‘long tail’ that’s about normal in these exercises. 6% is 151 people, who I wouldn’t be surprised to find out include many of the folks most active on this site, not that we’ll ever know.
So how did those 151 people vote?
Interestingly, very similarly to the two thousand people who provided the other half of the votes. The same songs formed the top 12, in an order that’s not drastically different. Only a couple of songs did a lot better with the big voters: Joy In Leeuwarden would comfortably have made the qualifiers on just their votes, and Descent Of The Stiperstones would have crept in too. But we’d have lost Restless Legs. At the bottom, nothing much would have changed.
Not sure if this proves anything, but I found it interesting nevertheless.
13 June 2023
Transit full of keith
Stiperstones, Gwatkin, Depressed Beyond Tablets, Monmore, Umberstone Covert, Surging, Monmore, Squabble Fest, to me, stand head and shoulders above some of the qualifiers, like Capel Curig, Restless Legs, Knobheads, and Midnight Mass Murder – good though they are. I’m trying to work out what the quality is, and best I can come up with is “the ones I can, want to, or sometimes have to listen to again the moment they’ve finished”.
13 June 2023
EXXO
What do you notice about those titles, though Keith, particularly in relation to the choruses or the main laughs in the songs? The way the voting format highlights particular memories of chuckles within the titles could be decisive in many cases. How many times have you heard someone start (and often finish) their supposed appreciation of HMHB with “hurhur great titles”?
I would imagine that if Gwatkin were titled ‘Cresta’ or Constance was ‘Midge Ure’ they would finish at least ten to fifteen places higher in such a vote.
13 June 2023
Brumbiscuit
NO LILAC HARRY QUINN!!!
(Throws toys out of pram…)
13 June 2023
EXXO
Come on, I can’t be the only one who did this and knew how? And if I was, which I doubt, you can pretty much work it out from the figures Chris gave on my voting above.
13 June 2023
BAD LOSER
Easy explanation for ‘Broadstairs’ (#25). While it is far from their greatest song lyrically, it’s a ‘Great pacy number to open the show’.
13 June 2023
THE BASTARD IN THE HAT
@Exxo #30: It really is possible that you were the only one who even went looking for a way to arrange rematches artificially. I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.
@Exxo #28: I think an unrecognisable song title could be a major drawback (as well as your point that humorous/punchy titles are a benefit). For example, I had to go off and look up Malayan Jelutong before I voted on it — “oh, it’s that one, that beats bloody Bob Todd all day long”. I don’t suppose these effects would make a huge change to the qualifiers, but something has to explain RSVP, Emergency Locksmith, Third Track etc being in the lowest 20% (for pity’s sake).
13 June 2023
Lux inferior
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if all three ‘lucky losers’ came from the relatively unpopular 1995-2000 era. Definitely Capel Curig (56th in 2019) & Look Dad (49th in 2019), and possibly Irk (33rd last time), although Terminus (31st) could once again have been criminally underrated.
Anyhow, for no reason whatsoever, here’s how I’d bet on the remaining 32 runners. Overround of just under 150%, which might seem a rip-off, but is typical of what you’d expect in a field of this size (the average overround for the past twenty Grand Nationals is around 150%, for 40 runner fields in most instances). I’m convinced Oblong will win at a canter.
Oblong 10/11
TLATEOTT 9/2
NSD 5/1
AOR 15/2
Evening of Swing 14/1
Trad. Arr. Tune 14/1
JDOG 16/1
ETABR 22/1
24 Hour GP 25/1
Chatteris 25/1
DPAK 33/1
MMM 50/1
Evening Sun 66/1
Bad Wools 66/1
Restless Legs 66/1
Wrong Grave 66/1
Trumpton Riots 66/1
Bob Wilson 100/1
Vagaries 100/1
Terminus 100/1
Paintball 150/1
Knobheads 200/1
Eno 200/1
Vitas G 200/1
Dickie Davies 200/1
Fred Titmus 250/1
Look Dad 250/1
Irk the Purists 500/1
Bob Todd 500/1
Time Flies By 500/1
Broadstairs 500/1
Capel Curig 1000/1
13 June 2023
EXXO
I certainly didn’t go looking for it, but I have a vague memory that I noticed the loophole by accident in 2015 when I voted a lot more, before being told that amount of voting was pointless. I did not exploit the loophole then, but did this time just for the halibut knowing that in all likelihood it would be obvious. I’ll be surprised it’s just me though. Has to be a significant percentage of us who worked out which pool tables could give free games, and how to get them, within weeks of arriving at Uni?
13 June 2023
EXXO
Wat’s that Lux about 180% overround at a glance? Nice work if you can get it. But there’s two there that I would make good money on ‘back-to-lay’ – ETABR and FWIC
13 June 2023
Lux inferior
@Exxo – marginally under 150% overround, by my calculations. As I say, not uncommon for such a field size, albeit weighted heavily in the layers’ favour.
After posting, the one that stood out to me as being overpriced was ETABR. My odds were based on the fact that, although it got to the semis last time, it had a relatively easy draw and only finished tenth in the Baguette Dilemma Round. As for Chatteris, I thought I’d priced it up rather cagily.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Like I said I didn’t go looking for it. Cos I didn’t want to.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Soz @Lux – my odds-obsessed eyes went so direct to your prices that I never read your 2nd para and forgot I hadn’t!! Very telling.
13 June 2023
EXXO
@BitH – I meant to mention alliterative titles too. Like rhyme, we almost have these things built in to our aesthetics.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Prepare to be surprised, it was just you. As TBITH says: “It really is possible that you were the only one… I can’t think of a good reason why anyone would want to.”
Even the three people who voted the most, and they voted thousands of times more than you, did not ‘move the needle’ much more than 100 votes for or against any particular song. And usually, when they did, it was because they were voting for a song that is generally considered to be one of the better ones, and against a song that unsurprisingly appears towards the bottom …in other words, they didn’t have any unusual agenda. For example, the top voter nearly always voted against Carry On Cremating, etc., and seemed to like Trumpton, JDOG, Oblong, etc. The two most prolific voters both seemed to like Harry Quinn, the second most prolific Umberstone, and the third I, Trog, but we all have our favourites and those were among the few outliers against the general voting. There were even fewer anomalies when it came to voting against a song – the third most prolific voter didn’t seem to like King of Hi Viz for some reason, but despite contributing several times the votes that you piled in with, they didn’t vote against it even a third of the amount that you voted against Chatteris.
So yes, it was just you. If it moved the needle at all, it was just to bring forward the day when I get exasperated with all this shit.
13 June 2023
EXXO
Apologies for your exasperation and that of anyone who believes in the fairness of anonymous online polls. Sincerely. I won’t do it again (but would suggest you use non-anonymous means, which you are )
I really, really tried not to be naughty, and when I was naughty I did it for an aggregate of a couple of hours in such an obvious nihilistic way – no change of IP etc – that it has drawn attention to a loophole at least.
13 June 2023
Chris The Siteowner
That’s for sure, you’re right there Exxo, and it’s a real shame. I think the songs it hurts the hardest are the older and slightly more obscurer ones (think 1990s albums) where the titles don’t appear in the songs at all (Multitude, Song For Europe, etc). However, the ‘skips’ were much higher this time, so that might have helped.
13 June 2023
paul f
I think that’s another reason I’m not so keen on the BDR. I suspect people tend to “skip” when they get two such songs, but if they get a song they like vs one of these, they’ll go for the song they like. And a format that involves mass repeat voting doesn’t lend itself to people checking both songs out before making a choice, as it slows the process massively.
13 June 2023
Ferencváros fan
@TFOK: I’m closely aligned with you when it comes to faves missing out, but I would add Grafting Haddock. It was a grower for me from TVY, but is now right up there in my top 10. Hearing it live for the first time (Camden) will always be a personal highlight of 2023.
Surging is top 5 for me. Tour Jacket is top 10. I thought the former would make the cut but I knew the latter didn’t stand a chance, and I never expect to hear it live. However what they have in common, (@Dr D) is that, depending on my mood, one or t’other contains my favourite lyric. It’s ‘Is your child…?’ or ‘Are you knackered man…?’
@Lux I cannot argue with your betting analysis, and OOD is (unsurprisingly) my other fave from TVR but as a steadfast non-favourite backer I’ll have a punt on ETABR, e/w if possible, ie to make the semis with 4 to pay.
Huge thanks @CtSO for your efforts in staging this competition. I was too new to the party to truly appreciate it in 2019 but I’m loving it now, notwithstanding lingering, and probably everlasting, imposter syndrome…
13 June 2023
Dick Quax Running Shoes
In the mini-competition of songs that definitely don’t, or arguably don’t, have any lyrics ‘Busy Little Market Town’ (190) was the runaway winner this time out.
14 June 2023
Dick Quax Running Shoes
Also, a full seven songs in the 2023 Baguette Dilemma Round won more of their matches than the best-performing song in the 2019 edition, which won 78.2% of its contests. Interesting to me.
14 June 2023
Lux inferior
@FF – Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to be taking bets. Just as well really, as I’ve clearly made a rick with my pricing of ETABR if it immediately stood out as value to great minds such as yourself & Exxo. If I were a bookie, I’d be imploring my traders to ‘get the odds cut, get the fuckin’ odds cut’. And I’d also be engaged in some serious hedging.
14 June 2023
FERENCVáROS FAN
@Lux: Thanks all the same for running this virtual book, which will add a bit of spice to the knock-out rounds for me. It will be interesting to see if my bet proves to be an example of each way thievery at its best, or an all-too-familiar case of a 22/1 shot being 22/1 for a very good reason. Still hopeful of meeting you in person later in the year, although I’m not due to come out to play again till Wolvo. In the meantime, please feel the love of your fellow Biscuiteers, and keep fighting.
14 June 2023
Lux inferior
Thank you for your very kind words, FF. I’m almost tempted to lay your bet!
Very much hoping to make the Wolvo gig myself (I believe there are still tickets available), but unable to make definite plans just yet. Don’t you worry, I’m still battling away – despite the horrendous state of this country after 13 years of Tory misrule, there’s still plenty of good stuff to keep going for 🙂
14 June 2023
IRISH NIALL
@CtSO @Exxo -Y’know I was thinking something very similar …that songs where the hook isn’t immediate from the title may hobble songs mentioned like Multitude and Malayan Jelutong.
In some bizarre alternate universe where a major label were to agree to release say Fix It So She Dreams of Me as a single it’d be on condition it’s retitled something like Gok Wan Acolytes (Fix It So She Dreams of Me) so punters in the old days could find or describe it in the record shop -or find it within three clicks contemporaneously.
14 June 2023
Transit full of keith
If nothing else, this is a chance to reflect that the unforgettable lyric “the high-pitched lamentations of an unbalanced Lincoln woman, who nurses injured buzzards back to health inside her dead child’s wardrobe” appears in their 213th-rated song – eighth from the bottom of the list. Absolute unique quality running from top to bottom of the list, like letters through a stick of rock.
14 June 2023
schoon
Surely the feelgood story of the cup so far is Visitor for Mr Edmonds. It took on other songs without even being music, and won 8.6% of the time.
14 June 2023
parsfan
A wee suggestion, rather than making people pass a test before letting them vote, how about next time we have a line from the lyrics or alt title underneath the song title.
The Bane of Constance
(Midge Ure looks like a milk thief)
V
Vatican Broadside
(Slipknot)
We could even spend the three and a half years between the end of this tournament and the start of the next one arguing over what line/alt title to best represent each song.
Who’d have thought that folk who follow a highly unfashionable band wouldn’t all like the same songs?
15 June 2023
dr DEsperate
Good idea, @PF. It would probably take less than three and a half years to paste in the lines already chosen to head the discussion page for each song (“Not long now before lollipop men are called Darren” for ‘Totnes Bickering Fair’, “Trying to be Mansfield’s very own Steve Malkmus” for ‘Lark Descending’, etc).
15 June 2023
Billy Webfoot
Still weeping that Improv Workshop Gobshites only made it to 100. In my worthless opinion its one of HMHBs finest with a killer bass part and one of my favourite little guitar licks ever.
Doubly depressed that Nigel apparently couldnt even remember the song when asked about it.
And Tonight Matthew only made it to 97? Im feeling bitter
15 June 2023
Injured buzzard
@TFoK Great lyric that.
Despite my best efforts, SSWHLL also made the bottom 10.
18 June 2023
Liquid Greek
@ BILLY WEBFOOT Couldn’t agree more re Improv Workshop Mimeshow Gobshites, one of my very favourite HMHB songs
19 June 2023
Jeff dreAdnought
To prevent people voting on the title alone, is there a way in future that voters could be forced to scroll through the lyrics and entire discussion thread for each song (to find out/be reminded about all of its many intricacies) before ticking a box to confirm they have read it and then being taken to the actual voting page? A bit like when you have to confirm you’ve read all the Terms and Conditions before you update your phone. Then songs like Epiphany and Slipping the Escort might get the credit they deserve.
20 June 2023
Paul THE BLYTH SPARTANS FAN
“The Bastard Son of Dean Friedman” and “Bad Losers on Yahoo Chess” are 2 of my 3 favourite HMHB songs so as soon as “For What Is Chatteris” gets knocked out my disappointment will be complete.
5 September 2023