The Draw
| Every Time a Bell Rings | v | Everything’s AOR |
| Joy Division Oven Gloves | v | Oblong of Dreams |
And then there were four. Looking for another suitably contrived way to make the draw, what could be better than the British Crown Green Bowling Association‘s World Club Championship, which had its finals at Heaton Park imminently. Featuring global teams from as far afield as Willenhall Nordley, Stretton Anglesey, Thongsbridge and Pudsey, it just seemed unmissable. Rules discussed in the comments thread below.
No chi(m)ps allowed
The British Crown Green Bowling Association’s World Club Championship has certainly cast its net far and wide. Purely for the name my money’s on Thongsbridge. Though keep a eye out for that sneaky one eyed Teddy bear.
10 October 2023
EXXO
Deadly local rivals of Holmfirth Bowling Club. They are just half a mile apart. I won’t be the only one who has accidentally got off the bus in Thongsbridge when heading to see HMHB at the Picturedrome.
10 October 2023
EXXO
The one-eyed bears of course are the reigning World Champions. At a glance they would appear to have 1 or 2 players under 30, and so indeed may employ the sneaky hand of god’s own county.
10 October 2023
EXXO
Thanks everyone for all the correspondence, calls and texts putting me right about Pudsey and the fact that these of course are already the second world championships of 2023. Silly me. Pudsey were world champions in 2022 but were runners-up in the first final of 2023.Still they are the sneaky one-eyed bears though.
10 October 2023
No chi(m)ps allowed
Seems the British Crown Green Bowling Association can’t get enough of World Championships. An insatiable beast.
11 October 2023
EXXO
It might serve as a quiz question one day. Which sport held its world championships twice in 2022* and 2023** because Covid stopped them doing it in 2020 and 2021?
*needs further research – they don’t make it easy
**definitely
11 October 2023
No chi(m)ps allowed
Until this thread, I never realised that Crown Green Bowling, especially the Great British version, could instill such passionate debate. I understand that the hairy yellow bandaged guys have the advantage, but I’m still drawn to the nether garment gang, due to my need for exploration going from the Indies to the Andes in my undies.Hot shot!
11 October 2023
No chi(m)ps allowed
Help. Is there jovial banter between Crown Green and Flat Green Bowling as there is between both persuasions of Rugby? Also, never been to Pudsey, any useful info would be appreciated pre visit.
11 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Right (and I’m a bit nervous about this one, as it does require the competitions secretary of the BCGBA to get the results up on their website), but here we go with the rules. Let me know if you can see any flaws.
[1] We match up songs and teams…
• Winner of Willenhall Nordley v Stretton Anglesey will represent Everything’s AOR;
• Winner of Greville Arms v Alvaston & Boulton will represent Joy Division Oven Gloves;
• Winner of Parkfield Labour v Thongsbridge will represent Oblong of Dreams;
• Winner of Pudsey v Castle Sports will represent Every Time a Bell Rings.
(Songs ordered by their vote total in the previous round)
[2] The songs will go into a draw of 1 v 3 and 2 v 4*, where 1 is the song whose team scored the most points in the BCGBA WCC quarter-finals, semi-finals and final combined, 2 is the song whose team scored the second most points, etc. Presumably the two finalists will score the most points, as they’ll get three matches to score their points. In the event of any ties, we’ll order the teams by fewest points conceded in their biggest win of the day, and then, oh I dunno, this won’t happen, but alphabetical order.
*Chosen so the best two get home advantage. Pointlessly, of course.
11 October 2023
No chi(m)ps allowed
Ref my previous post. Who needs the library or the pub ( well me but), when we have the digital creative wikipedia hub. Heaton Park, Manchester hosts the GBCGBAWCC this weekend. Joy in Heaton Park, for sure. Apparently, HP hosts both Crown Green and Flat Green bowls, so I imagine both parties get along together. If anyone knows any different, let us all know. Pudsey, it seems, is worth a visit. A Monty Python sketch had a Mr and Mrs Brainsample walking along the platform of the, then new, Pudsey rail station, and Ripping Yarns often referred to the town. The Town Hall has enough lighting to show 255 different scenes on its edifice. Surely a sight to behold after dark, when the evening sun goes down. The number 16 bus runs from Leeds to Bradford via Pudsey rail station and, as far as I can see, thank the Lord, there is no Bridge Street. If you know different, feel free to correct me. Sportswise, or….., cricket appears to be prevalent. Matthew Hoggard, SIR Len Hutton, Herbert Sutcliffe ( hopefully not related to you know who), and the great Raymond Illingworth all lived or played in Pudsey. FC Pudsey’s recent match was a 2-2 draw with Esholt Athletic. Esholt, incidentally, was home to the soap, Emmerdale Farm from 1976 until 1996. One place that definitely deserves a mention is the World’s End pub, which looks well worth a visit, or two. Finally, there is a tenuous link to Pudsey’s neighbour Farsley, to our boys from Birkenhead. On 23rd November 1974 Farsley Celtic played Tranmere Rovers in the 1st round of the FA Cup. Such was the demand to see the SWA, or the hope of a famous Cup upset, that 11,000 fans attended the match, which was held at Leeds’ Elland Road. It remains Farsley’s biggest gate, however Tranmere ran out winners 2-0. Good night.
12 October 2023
dr DEsperate
As it happens we were in Farsley last month, to the wonderful Old Woollen (a converted satanic mill, of some sort) to see Graham Parker. Anybody off to see The Bootleg Beatles there in a fortnight?
12 October 2023
EXXO
Great new venue that, Doc. Went to the Commoners’ Choir Festival there – saw Steve ignorant, Mark Thomas, etc. Nice chat with Mik Artistik on the bus home.
12 October 2023
Huddersfield’s Very Own Steve Malkmus
Thongsbridge is far too perfect for the draw, given the proximity to Holmfirth. The village was the only intermediate stop on the former Holmfirth branch line which closed before the Beeching axe. As for slightly amusing names, the nearby villages of Upperthong and Netherthong are similarly titter-worthy.
The aforementioned Pudsey Railway Station is called New Pudsey. Not because it’s in a place called New Pudsey as no such place exists, but because when it was built it was the New station for the small town of Pudsey.
13 October 2023
EXXO
The auguries couldn’t be better for Oblong when you consider it will be represented either by a neighbour of one of the world’s great HMHB venues, or a neighbour of the part of Preston where some of the world’s greatest biscuiteers grew up.
13 October 2023
parsfan
I passed through New Pudsey on Saturday on the way to Leeds. Plus lots of other stations I’d never heard of that I immediately forgot, like the one before it where we waited for about 20 minutes.
Someone on the line outside New Pudsey apparently, which I thought might have been a euphemism for a Coroner’s Footnote type situation.
I presume not in the end as we were moving about five minutes after they said the police would be there in 15.
13 October 2023
dr DEsperate
Come on Parkfield! Less than a mile from my old house.
(Shame it’s not the Freckleton Club, 6 miles further down Preston New Road, behind the Coach & Horses.)
14 October 2023
Just another lackey
Rooting for Willenhall Nordley here – their home ground is but a short stroll from the house where my Mum grew up. Victory in the championship would be the finest sporting achievement for the town of Willenhall since the football team reached the final of the FA Vase in 1981 (losing 3-2 to Whickham after extra time). What a day out that was. So enough of this Pudsey talk and good luck to Willenhall (Nordley)!
14 October 2023
Embrace the margin
In a similar vein, Pudsey gets the cheer here as ancestral territory. Technically my mum’s from Stanningley, but the Pudsey, Stanningley, Bramley arc was home to all that side of the family for decades. If your house or office in West Leeds got done over in the late 80s or early 90s it could well have been one of my cousins.
14 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Bless the BCGBA competitions secretary, they’re updating the results live!
15 October 2023
Nige nnto
well it is a world championship, not some mickey mouse event 🙂
15 October 2023
Johnny kwango
Nice to see Houldsworth WMC (Cheshire) getting a mention, they are just round the corner from where I grew up. Well beaten this time round, but hopefully their evening on the swings won’t get cancelled (happy times as a lad in the park opposite).
15 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Pudsey are the winners! But more importantly…
Quarter-Finals
• Willenhall Nordley 124-154 Stretton Anglesey
• Greville Arms 167-111 Alvaston & Boulton
• Parkfield Labour 148-120 Thongsbridge
• Pudsey 154-128 Castle Sports
So…
• Stretton Anglesey will represent Everything’s AOR;
• Greville Arms will represent Joy Division Oven Gloves;
• Parkfield Labour will represent Oblong of Dreams;
• Pudsey will represent Every Time a Bell Rings
Semi-Finals
• Parkfield Labour 84-168 Pudsey
• Stretton Anglesey 146-149 Greville Arms
Final
• Pudsey 161-131 Greville Arms
TOTALS
Pudsey 154 + 168 + 161 = 483
Greville Arms 167 + 149 + 131 = 447
Stretton Anglesey 154 + 146 = 300
Parkfield Labour 148 + 84 = 232
So…
Every Time a Bell Rings = 1
Joy Division Oven Gloves = 2
Everything’s AOR = 3
Oblong of Dreams = 4
…and as the draw is 1v3 and 2v4, we have:
Every Time a Bell Rings v Everything’s AOR
Joy Division Oven Gloves v Oblong of Dreams
I hope I got that right!
15 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
“Oblong of Dreams” last out of the hat for the third successive round! What could it all mean?
15 October 2023
two fat feet
My now 98% accurate predictions :
AOR 58%
Oblong 61%
16 October 2023
No chi(m)ps allowed
First of all, a hearty congratulations to Pudsey on winning the recent BCGBA World Championship. Next, I’ve sent letters (recorded delivery, of course), to the deputy minister (interim) for railways and the assistant chief namer of stations (UK), requesting a full public enquiry and questions in the House, regarding the latter’s predecessors shameful naming of the rail station at Pudsey, New Pudsey. According to AA route finder, Farsley town centre is closer to the station than Pudsey town centre, on foot, by car and by bicycle. Therefore should the station have been named Farsley or, at worst, Farsley and Pudsey. To name the station New is incorrect on many levels. As pointed out previously, there is no place named New Pudsey, there isn’t even an Old Pudsey. It’s just Pudsey. According to Wikipedia, there has been a settlement named Pudsey since, at least, the 5th century, way before the railways arrived. If it was built as a new station then surely the letter N/n should have been “n”, new Pudsey station. In any case this is a disgraceful waste of honest tax payers’ money. There’s no need for the N, or even the e and w. I rest my case, roll on the semis.
16 October 2023
Old tige
Every v Every and Joy v Dreams.
I like AOR, but it is waaaay down my personal rankings compared to the other 3. It makes me sad that the odds makers have it in the final.
I still hope the final will be a Skywalkeresque battle of light vs dark between OoD and ETaBR. Not sure which side I’d take.
16 October 2023
dr DEsperate
Just hope nobody confuses ETaBR with EtAOR.
16 October 2023
Oblong of nightmares
Hoping TFF’s predictions work out here. ETABR is not even the best song on that album, let alone deserving of a SF place. Oblong is unbeatable at this point, imo, so not giving JDOG a chance.
16 October 2023
D list paul ross
Pronounced Putseh round these ends.
16 October 2023
MULDOON LIVES!
Re #26,Old Tige, I think OOD has the high ground. (Caldy Hill)
17 October 2023
gipton teenager
I would say that people from Bradford would say “Putseh”, but then again they say “Bratfudd”
17 October 2023
D list paul ross
@GT not a Yorkshireman myself but I’ve lived here a very long time. As an aside my wife has a friend who is married to a chap called Ford and his brother is called Brad. That’s outdated civic pride right there.
18 October 2023
dr DEsperate
American Sean was wearing a Labradford (q v) tee shirt at Wolvo, probably out of civic pride as they come from his home town of Richmond, Virginia
18 October 2023
Schoon
Can you believe it? A different winner every time in the LFC. Come on AOR make Old Tige really sad and win it all.
Of course it’s the final countdown at this time of the year for Europe’s annual fan song knockout as well. The voting is open for this year’s final: ‘The Final Countdown final countdown’.
It’s The Final Countdown Vs Rock the Night, a repeat of the last 11 finals.
18 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
Voting is now open…
18 October 2023
Two fat feet
Gone with Oblong for the first time; not that I don’t like it, it’s just the first time I’ve preferred it to the other one. And AOR, a perennial challenger but always the bridesmaid and I feel it deserves to get there this time.
18 October 2023
The harbinger of nothing
Two of my favourite artists – Mark Olover Everett and Mark Linkous – have strong connections to Richmond, Virginia. Both could be said to have had isolationist periods. There must be something about the place. I shall have to check out the work of Mark Nelson.
18 October 2023
The harbinger of nothing
As for the Cup, I know exactly which song I want to win. There’s only one contender in my eyes (or, perhaps more accurately, ears) but I’m not going to jinx it by saying which one.
18 October 2023
Ian Simms
Wonderful band that give their all at every gig – next one for me is Newcastle a fair schlep from home in Aylesbury but we’ll worth it & can’t wait 😝
18 October 2023
Transit full of keith
I had to go for the two oldies myself… Nothing wrong with ETABR and OOD (especially live), but I can’t in good conscience vote for songs at this stage when I rate other songs off the same albums higher (Umberstone Covert! Persian Rug Sale!). A Nagasaki Derby for the final.
18 October 2023
BAD LOSER
All 4 are in my top 10 but wasted no time deciding.
I wish the recorded version of ETABR played to the same end as the live performances rather than fading out. Still got my vote.
Oblong was going to get my vote all the way after Terminus was cruelly cast aside in the last 32.
18 October 2023
Just another lackey
Letters (emails) sent. I thought the semis would pose the toughest quandaries but these were the easiest decisions yet – two away wins for me and no need for extra (listening) time.
18 October 2023
Just another lackey
SCHOON (34) – you’ve just made me go and listen to TFC for the first time in ages – joyous stuff, thank you.
I do wonder if heading for Venus was such a good idea though. From what I learned from Prof. Brian Cox it’s not exactly the best destination.
18 October 2023
Huddersfield’s Very Own Steve Malkmus
Also gone for EAOR and OOD. If that’s the final, then whichever wins will be a worthy winner. EABR is the surprise package for getting this far, the plucky underdog of the tournament.
18 October 2023
Dr desperate
@JAL (43) You may be right.
“Only darkness lies between us
20 million miles of bleakness
Human weakness.”
18 October 2023
snout
Due to foreign travel, well incompetence if I’m being honest, I missed the QF votes and was equal parts shocked and guilty to see TradArr beaten by the woeful (by HMHB standards) BellRings, and only by 5 votes. Whilst not being in my personal top 10, EAOR is 10 times the worth of BellRings so you know where my vote goes there.
JDOG v OOD is a far trickier one to call. Both good songs but possibly struggling to get into a personal top 40. JDOG is the pop picker’s favourite whereas OOD carries the musical and lyrical heft. However my mind wanders during the latter so JDOG gets the vote.
In summary, you lot have odd taste. Just off the top of my head, 1966, Chatteris, Westward, TeenageBride, Checkatrade, MileageChart, ProblemChimp, Bubblewrap, NSD and many others trump all the semi-finalists.
18 October 2023
MULDOON LIVES!
Dice cast.
18 October 2023
Chris The Siteowner
I think at least one member of the band will be happy with the way things are going this tournament. Remember this, which appeared on stage at Bilston during the 2015 voting?
18 October 2023
PAT BOONE ON THE COUNTY BASSOON
JDOG always gets my voit. The other one is tough but I’ve always liked EAOR (and it was great live at Wolverhampton the other week)
18 October 2023
Chris Perry
I am not sure I have the strength in my fingers to vote. I have got incredibly nervous at having to choose now. They’ve gone to jelly, like Roger Osborne’s legs after scoring in the FA Cup final for Ipswich Town.
18 October 2023
Lux inferior
Updated outright odds. It’s all done and dusted, despite AOR’s run of highly convincing victories.
Oblong 2/7
AOR 4/1
JDOG 16/1
ETABR 18/1
18 October 2023
Poopleby
Snout @ 46. I agree, the overall banter suggests love for songs that I don’t rate as highly as some others do, apparently. I would never have cast some of these four as potential semi finalists but that’s democracy. It’s also odd to me that the winner of the baguette dilemma round hasn’t made it this far but hopefully some clever statistician can tell why that shouldn’t be a surprise.
As for TFC, on first listening I hoped the reference to Venus was to set up a childish rhyme at the end of the next line. How disappointed I was.
18 October 2023
Just another lackey
Amazon Music* indicates the relative popularity of album tracks with a series of ten vertical lines. The most popular tracks have 10 turquoise lines**. Checking the semi-finalists out, as of right now:
EAOR: 10/10 (head and shoulders above OOVG and OT, each at 7/10)
JDOG: 10/10 (a clear 4 lines more than the nearest challenger (RL))
ETABR: 10/10 (same as KOQS, WMCF);
OOD: 6/10 (IGBITM and MM at 10/10 each)
Unbelievably (in my humble opinion) this makes Oblong the outlier in the semis, up against three super-songs – assuming Amazon Music is fully representative of the HMHB song-voting populace. Which it probably isn’t.
* HMHB have OVER 900 followers on there, no indication how many are voting on here though, that Venn diagram is yet to be drawn
**There’s probably a technical term, but lines is what I’m sticking either way even though on closer inspection they may be lozenge-shaped.
18 October 2023
Quantocks checker outer
Whilst song preferences are subjective (except for the undisputed fact that Harsh Times and Terminus and not ETABR are the stone cold classics on that album) my takeaway – and it has been remarked on elsewhere I know – is just how high the quality of the songwriting (both lyrics and tunesmithery) have been sustained (and arguably improved) into a more ‘mature’ style over nigh on 40 years. As Danny Baker said when calling out your Van Morrisons and Elvis Costellos the early promise of genius soon recedes into disappointing mediocrity and eventually scraping the barrel cover versions… and isn’t that true of almost any artist or band you could name? Maybe Springsteen and Weller are exceptions to the rule along with my other hero, Warren Zevon’s late albums, but there aren’t many. I don’t think it’s recency bias. That they can still be creating original stuff that stands comparison or betters what came before – isn’t that the most impressive feat of all? And it lets us argue the merits of songs that were written decades apart. Remarkable really.
18 October 2023
SQUID YES OCTOPUS NO
Agree with many of Snout’s choices @ 46. I’d have to say that EAOR has always been my favourite and IMHO their best.
19 October 2023
old tige
@Snout #46, yes indeed, I was very scarred by no songs from UFO making the round of 32. Teenage Bride is massively underrated; I think False Grit and This One’s for Now are about as good as songwriting can get. Don’t get me started, I love that album front to back. Also agree on Chatteris.
@Harbinger #21 — if you want more Richmond VA, the lead singer for Valient Thorr owns a bar there. Punkish metal band with an interesting cosmology.
19 October 2023
dr DEsperate
I was trying to remember how Sean got us onto the subject of Camper Van Beethoven in the Great Western before the Wolvo gig (and ‘Take the Skinheads Bowling’, which they later covered, of course). It’s because their singer David Lowery lives in Richmond, as well as in Athens, Georgia.
19 October 2023
EXXO
@Dr. D
It’s going to be at least 25 million miles within the era of rocket travel to get to where Venus will be by the time they get there. OK, we’ll give them 25%, but my main gripe is about the darkness. Pointing at where Venus will be by the time you get there over the shortest distance, you are by definition flying straight at the sun the whole time. You’re going to need some mighty shields/deflectors to achieve “only darkness.” The bleakness and the weakness I won’t quibble about.
19 October 2023
BAD LOSER
Don’t think I’ll ever use Amazon as a guide for future purchases. A quick look shows that Terminus, Chatteris, UFO, Floreat and Fix It all score in the 5 to 7 range.
19 October 2023
The harbinger of nothing
@Dr D – Ah yes, David Lowery, also of Cracker and a long-time Sparklehorse collaborator. CVB are another band I must check out, I only know Skinheads.
@Old Tige – I’d never heard of Valient Thorr, but judging by their Wikipedia page, I’d say they probably didn’t have an isolationist period.
19 October 2023
Sean the colonist
The Richmond discussion began with local boys Labradford, then onto Dave Lowery, who lived in Richmond for years during his Cracker days; apparently was dating a Richmond girl and fell in love with the Confederate Capital, which is how I ended up there as well. Other famous sons include GWAR, Sparklehorse, Lamb of God, Arthur Ashe and Mr. EA Poe. Patrick Henry delivered his “Liberty or Death” speech there. Wonderful town.
19 October 2023
Johnny kwango
Snout @ 46 – Teenage Bride is such a great track, the lyrics are exceptionally well crafted and it always brings a smile to my face. It does seem massively underrated and I just can’t understand why. Also extremely partial to Hornbeam and it would certainly go down well in the mosh pit, but seldom seems to get a mention.
I want to jump but it’s such a view – my thoughts entirely.
19 October 2023
jodrell banksy
Richmond VA always makes me think of the ’90s Devo-esque band Men’s Recovery Project. Their Discogs page quite improbably alleges, “They broke up in 2002, due to Neil Burke’s inability to tour due to his ongoing issues with restless leg syndrome.” You can’t make this stuff up, folks!
20 October 2023
Ghost of kirkus
@62 Johnny Quango – OAKMTB always reminds me of Geoff Birtles’ comments in High magazine about charity abseils being the most effective and humane means of controlling the population of vicars.
21 October 2023
Johnny kwango
I guess scraps with bears having gone out of fashion some years ago.
21 October 2023
MULDOON LIVES!
61 @Sean. according to Jello Biafra, at the time Patrick Henry gave his “Liberty or death” speech he owned 65 slaves.
21 October 2023
Dorian
Love all 4 tracks
21 October 2023