Ed’s note: this article replaces an original which the author says was “factually incorrect, hard to read, terribly long-winded and sounds like I’m trying to pick a fight with an argument that no-one’s actually made.” The first comments on the page relate to the original article, which has now been retired.
Third Rate Les In His Burberry Fez writes:
My first encounter with Half Man Half Biscuit, Trumpton Riots, seemed like a committed political statement, coming as it did in the midst of Thatcher’s 80s, an era whose harshly polarised politics had an element of dangerous anarchy which until very recently seemed forgotten. There’s a lot of harsh imagery and language – unemployment “spreading like pneumonia”, CS gas, flying bricks, plans to assassinate the mayor, and nail bombs. At the same time however, you need to remember that this is about Trumpton – Windy Miller was an extremely dozy, slow-moving character, not someone likely to smash down a door – and that the revolution is also a failure. Still, it’s a clever, subversive, angry song, and jumping around to it at gigs these days always feels like a throwback to the heady anarchy of the demonstrations, moshpits and football crowds of the time.
So are Half Man Half Biscuit a “political” band? There’s certainly plenty of social comment, sometimes quite sour. There’s a lot of poking fun and perhaps genuine dislike of dull, comfortable middle class values. NB57 has a real moan at people who call Glastonbury “Glasto”, go skiing, giggle at Ann Summers and own Volvos (all in one song), or who know where things are at B & Q, or have personalised number plates. I think it’s easy to over-state this though; it’s “not the worst crime”, and a lot of these things aren’t political as such – a “saxophone in the corner” worldview isn’t really a question of politics.
Going through their albums chronologically shows some quite interesting variations in the level of political comment through the years. Here’s a quick summary:
1985 – The Tories fall behind Labour in polls. Riots in Handsworth, Brixton and Broadwater Farm. Heysel. Kenilworth Road. Bradford fire. Meanwhile, “Back In The DHSS” is released. There’s a complete absence of political comment apart from that title, which (as well as being a Beatles joke) seems to suggest thoughts on unemployment. Perhaps the only political reference is naming Lech Walesa, and then only to rhyme, entirely out of context, with Marks and Spencers.
1987 – Neil Kinnock whittles down Thatcher’s majority to just over 100 seats. The IRA blow up a Remembrance Day ceremony. Reagan makes his “Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall” speech, and the first Intifada starts. Meanwhile, HMHB release “Back Again In The DHSS”, which has Trumpton Riots on it.
1988- Scargill retains leadership of the NUM. Lawson cuts income tax. Unemployment down, house prices way up. Gazza joins Spurs. Thatcher visits Gdansk and draws ridicule for pressing for its freedom. Lawrie Sanchez. Van Basten. Meanwhile, HMHB release ACD. The nearest it comes to political comment is to a song owing a lot to the brilliant George Orwell, in the shape of “Arthur’s Farm”, a bizarre twist on Animal Farm but one which really doesn’t seem to have a particular political angle. Aside from that there’s certainly some frustration (poor old Rod Hull), and I suppose if you include Fergie as “politics”, you could argue there’s an anti-royalist sentiment to the Palace Spokesman line there.
1991 – Thatcher’s gone, and the poll tax with her (oh, and the Soviet Union too). The first Gulf War tempers statements about the end of history. The Premiership is announced, and Gazza breaks his knee. Interest rates hit 17% and my dad’s decision to leave the north, travel south and buy a tiny house looks unwise. Meanwhile, HMHB release McIntyre, Treadmore and Davitt, there’s a brief mention of the “mayoral frown” in the opening song, and then the political theme picks up a bit in Prag Vec at the Melkweg, which starts with a memorable unemployment re-working of Yellow Submarine – “lived a man who went to work”, messing about on the Enterprise Allowance Scheme. This is a theme picked up in “A Lilac Harry Quinn” – “if God had meant for us to work/ Then I’m sure he would have given us jobs”. Both of these, however, are observations about unemployed life, not directly about politics. There’s also a memorable piss-take of bands affecting to address serious themes in their music in the song “Girlfriend’s Finished With Him” – “You’ll find frailty, beauty, sex as art/and something or other about dolphins”.
1993 – The Tories are unexpectedly still in power, just about, and the economy is growing a little. Charles and Di split up. The UK suffers its first Bosnia casualty. The Warrington and Bishopsgate IRA bombs. James Bulger. The National gets cancelled. Unemployment up, the BNP win council seats. Ronald Koeman. Man Yoo. All in all, a National Shite Year. Meanwhile, HMHB reflect the times with This Leaden Pall, which has a song called “Turned up, clocked on, laid off”, a melancholy reflection on unemployment, as is “Floreat Inertia”. A good deal more reflective and serious than the previous album.
1995 – The Year Of The Miracle, as Blackburn Rovers win the league. Blair is Labour leader. Sarajevo besieged. Major fighting for political control. Princess Di whinges to Bashir (yawn). Meanwhile, HMHB release Some Call It Godcore, which has another song mocking the whole notion of songs about politics, in this case “Song For Europe”, full of crass statements of the kind that might have won the Eurovision for West Germany in the 80s. “Sponsoring the Moshpits” is a bit of a dig at commercialism (although the clubs are at least saved), but that’s about it for politics for another album.
1997 – the year of Blair’s Labour landslide. Things Can Only Get Better. Princess Di dies, uncovering depths of press hypocrisy which we’d previously only guessed at. Hong Kong given up. Scotland votes for its own parliament. The Kyoto agreement is signed. Meanwhile, HMHB release Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road, which has a pattern repeated in the following album, with a sudden, more serious political comment at the end of an otherwise light-hearted song; “Bad Review” ends in a verse of startling, beautiful bleakness referring to “the green shoots of recovery shrivelled up in harsh tomorrows”. There’s then a bit of sharp social piss-taking in “Song of Encouragement for the Orme Ascent”, “ITMA” and “He Who Would Valium Take” – I wince at that one as I have a mate whose husband quotes Chubby Brown at her quite a bit – and then above all the social piss-take to end all social piss-takes, “Paintball’s Coming Home”. We had the whole world to see our new conservatory then too, I think.
1998 – Things mostly still seem to be Getting Better. The Millennium Dome is under way. The Good Friday agreement is signed in Norn Iron. Beckham sent off. Meanwhile, HMHB release their most political album of all, Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral. “You’re hard” starts with a wonderful piss-take of various celebs, all of a sudden the final verse asks “Is this New Labour, Mr. Blair? Should anyone need me, I’ll be over there”. A gently-stated but still quite powerful bit of disillusionment. And on the very next song, “On Reaching The Wensum”, there’s then the comment “New Deal is all my arse”, again a surprise thrown in near the end of a song about other trivia. Then in “A Country Practice” there’s a direct criticism of money wasted on millennium celebrations, followed by an actual mention of the T-word, “Thatcher, that girl who made a wreck out of me” and labelled him an “idle layabout”. There’s also a mention of signing on at the Job Club in “Soft Verges”, and a simple little rant at things he doesn’t like which avoid politics altogether in “Turn A Blind Eye”; it takes the Pastor Niemoller comment from the Nazi period and turns it round to point out that actually some people do deserve to be carried off. It’s apolitical, but unsettlingly so.
2000 – the world’s computers continue to function. A new George Bush is in power. May Day riots about, er, something. Livingston elected mayor of London. Shearer beats Germany. Redgrave. Meanwhile, HMHB release Trouble Over Bridgewater, which has little mention of politics at all. There are balding senators in Gubba Lookalikes, King Alfred in Emerging From Gorse, and that’s about it.
2002 – Blair is back in power. The War on Terror has begun. Coal mining ends in Scotland. The Golden Jubilee. Bali bombings. Meanwhile, HMHB have a bit of comment about Britain’s lost industrial heritage in the very title of new album Cammell Laird Social Club, asking the interesting question as to why social clubs in Cuba are trendy and interesting when ones in Britain’s own industrial heartland aren’t, echoed in the song’s opening lines about Notting Hill. In the same album there’s also an interesting theme in San Antonio suggesting an aversion to official meddling from the State with a nice little rant about Spokesmen telling us what to think. In the same song is a little reference to the kind of politics of parish halls also seen later in “We Built This Village” and a number of others – a reference to strife over a town’s twin-town status. There’s even a reference to Ken Livingstone near the end of the album, but not in any kind of political context. Then there’s “Breaking News”, where they rattle off a list of things which annoy them, directed across all sorts of levels of society – council estate vicious dog-owners, leftie drama teachers, people who drop litter, and posh people giving their kids working class names.
2003 – the Iraq war begins. A big dumb Brit tries to blow up a bomb in his shoe. The UK’s largest-ever demonstration turns out to object to Saddam’s removal. Some rugby players win a big game in Australia. Meanwhile, HMHB release a half-album Saucy Haulage Ballads, which has a song which directs some pretty violent thoughts at Cambridge students, but then finishes with the claim that while this may sound like a class rant, it’s “really because I am the landlord of the pub that gets the cemetery trade”. An unconvincing argument, given that it’s clearly an act of furious revenge that he’s perpetrating from the belltower, not a commercial ploy. It still defuses the anger though, turning it into, somehow, a light-hearted song about mass murder.
2005 – Blair is re-elected, joining Bush back in power. There’s a new Pope too. Live-8 campaigns. Bombings in London, and more attempted 2 weeks later. Arsenal fail to match Blackburn’s unique feat of three straight FA Cup wins. Riots in Birmingham. The Ashes. Meanwhile, HMHB release Achtung Bono, which doesn’t have a lot of political or social comment aside from a rant mentioned above in Corgi Registered Friends, although it has another little angry dig at unpleasant officialdom in “Bogus Official” and it visits the world of Framley Examiner-style small-town politics in “We Built This Village” and in “What is Chatteris?”.
2008 – Gordon Brown is in power, sort of. As is Barack Obama. The world’s banks turn out to have been run by overpaid fuckwits all along. Terminal 5 too. Boris Johnson beats Livingston. Joey Barton sentenced. Woolworths disappears. Meanwhile HMHB release some gentle social comment in “CSI: Ambleside”. Christening party arseholes, people who park in blue badge spaces, embittered divorced parents. In particular there’s the furious rant of “National Shite Day” at inconsiderate pedestrians, Primark FM and Phil Cool, but interestingly the only overtly political reference (the Mugabe government and the children of the Calcutta railways) is actually when he’s trying (and failing) to put his trivial moans into perspective. There’s also the achingly lovely Lord Hereford’s Knob about a maiden driven by “the chattering classes” from Hebden Bridge.
2011 – David Cameron is in power, sort of. The world’s countries, as well as banks, turn out to have been run by overpaid fuckwits all along. The US gets Bin Laden at last. The Ashes are won again. Meanwhile HMHB release 90 Bisodol (Crimond), a dark tale of suicides, murders and unspeakable deeds, but still lacking in much by way of politics. There’s a good deal of ranting, but directed at Soccer AM guests, crap pub bands and idiotic terminology that sticks in the craw.
Well, so what? First of all, many of the released are in odd-numbered years, presumably to avoid international football championships. It’s also striking how many of the specific political references all cropped up at the same time, and were aimed at New Labour at a time when many were still in the stage of heady optimism. Before that though there’s certainly a reflection of the general political and social situation even if not explicit – it’s quite eerie looking back at what a grim year 1993 was when Leaden Pall came out, something that had passed me by personally as I got married and had a great time that year. Mainly though, what strikes me is how universally appealing the songs are, regardless of your political outlook. Even if you do know where things are at B&Q, own a Bonneville in bits, or have a fondness for Gok Wan, it’s impossible not to smile.
DC
Since when has ACD been the second album? – the 2 similarly titled DHSS albums are different albums…..
6 December 2010
Third Rate Les
Oh yeah. Never mind.
7 December 2010
Matthew
To 3rd rate Les I say your article is at the very least, 2nd rate. Good effort mate.
To DC I simply say, behave yourself. In a friendly manner of course.
8 December 2010
Mr Galbraith
I’ve only ever considered the New Labour line in You’re hard to be HMHB’s one truly political comment. At a time when people were waking up to the deceit of Blairism, it’s hard hitting stuff. The Thatcher reference lets the old bag off very lightly, I’ve always thought.
Tommy Walsh’s Eco-House mentions Lib Dems and Tories going to Cropredy and Cornbury respectively, but I’m not at all sure what this means. Possibly an allusion to Mssrs Clegg and Cameron pretending to be something they’re not? (Clegg a Tory in disguise and the uber posh Cameron masquerading as an ordinary middle-class type of bloke?) Even if I’m right, it’s hardly a call to revolution.
Nigel should stick to his strengths and continue to dig out inconsiderate pedestrians, Johnny Cash newbies and fantasise about jumping off the roof of Dignitas. Leave the politics to Billy Bragg and Green Day…
12 December 2010
VILLAPETE
The most political thing that springs to my mind is in A Country Practice. It is briefly mentioned by Les in his piece above, but I find the lyrics particularly hard-hitting:
“She died with her telly on, eighty-seven and confused
With not enough hospital beds ‘cos all the money’s been used
On the end of the century party preparations
And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican”
17 December 2010
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Nice work Third Rate Les. I’ve always felt since the mid 80s that social comment permeates the lyrics of NB57 like Penicillium roqueforti permeates coagulated milk protein.
Take Back in the DHSS for example, which I first heard on a badly recorded cassette, whilst living on £23 a week (rent £15 a week) with Mrs Vendor and a large Alsation to feed. No money, no prospects, no future. – We mean it Maaaan. It was the following lyrics which struck a chord with me, rather than the clever, witty, jokey stuff that everyone else I knew seemed to see in the band.
Unemployment’s rising in the Chigley end of town
And it’s spreading like pneumonia
Doesn’t look like going down.
In debt I owe someone a fiver
Maybe I should try my hand at drag.
I saw the wheels of nihilism rolling my way
And now I live life in the bus lane.
Frank was going through a state of depression in his bedroom.
They all went down the Social and they claimed their Supplementary.
Now he’s working in a job with a future
He hands me my Giro every two weeks.
As the other great mid 80s social commentator said;
And if you have five seconds to spare
Then I’ll tell you the story of my life.
Don’t really need to Moz, the above lyrics sum up the life of many of us in those days.
21 December 2010
Simon
“Every Saturday I get the Chigley skins
And they always smash my windows ‘cos the home side always wins
Yeah, time flies by when you’re a driver of a train
Gonna get me syringes out and crank up once again”
That could be added to the Back in the DHSS themes of unemployment in that it could help in perpetuating violence and drug usage. I’m probably clutching at straws but the driver of the train goes out of Trumpton where the riots failed so perhaps they just want to forget it by going stoned out of their brains.
Simon 🙂
4 January 2011
Dunrovin
Do you have a lot of time on yer hands?
7 January 2011
philip price
definitely third rate article,which seems to promote the idea that HMHB aren’t political,of course they are.In many songs such as “Evening of swing has been cancelled” “paintballs coming home” and “all i want for xmas is a dukla prague away kit” nigel laments the proto-bourgoise lifestyles imposed on us by Thatcherism and Blairism.
It’s quite clear that Nigel is at the very least wary of the middle classes,and that in itself is a political statement evocative of the mid 80’s struggle.I havent seen him writing a song attacking left wingers….
8 February 2011
BoBo
Waaaaaaayyyyy tooo interlechewell for me mate. Fucking dipstick..
20 February 2011
Neil G
@PHILIP PRICE
I never noticed this section until now, hence the delay in replying. I have to say that I agree with Les, for the most part. I don’t think Nigel’s writing betrays any strong political bias. The examples that you give – Evening of Swing, Painballs Coming Home and All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague Away Kit – are, I think, rants against things that Nigel dislikes personally. I don’t think they are politically motivated in any way, unless you take the extreme view that everything is political.
It is a long time since Trumpton Riots, which could be viewed as a political statement. Since it has not been followed up by anything remotely similar in the last twenty five years, I can only assume that Nigel was using familiar, gentle characters in unfamiliar, unexpected, violent ways in order to make fun, much like Armstrong and Miller’s World War 2 RAF pilots using modern streetspeak. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTmuteEFQjs
“It’s quite clear that Nigel is at the very least wary of the middle classes,and that in itself is a political statement evocative of the mid 80′s struggle.” That is one of the weakest, most pathetic arguments I have ever heard. I’d go as far as to say that it’s fourth rate.
5 March 2011
Florida Biscuit
Back in the day when I heard my first HMHB song on John Peel I did not consider them political as there were many other more overtly political bands around. Listening to the songs I found myself nodding approvingly at their scathing, witting attacks on popular culture. I could relate to the anomie and wished the lads lived near me so we could have played Striker in the loft.
11 March 2011
fremsley
“Turned up, clocked on, laid off” encapsulates the difficulties with HMHB and politics. From the title to the penultimate verse, it’s a journey through the private hell of being on the middle-aged scrap-heap, a simmering song of lament. Then, in the last verse, it’s straight back to 1986 and warm feelings from acknowledging childhood icons. Just like the end of ‘Blood on the Quad’, it is completely out of place. Being a fan I make obvious allowances, but if you played the song to anyone else they’d simply say “What’s this shit all about?” I presume this was the plan.
Neil really doesn’t want any song to become an anthem, does he?
4 April 2011
Tumshie
I think the article makes the mistake, common enough, of seeing politics as being concerned only with political parties and elections.
To me it seems odd to think that commentaries on class and class differences, on being unemployed and bored, can be anything other than political. Just because they aren’t ranting, are very funny and are great musically besides all that doesn’t stop the songs being political.
To take a song about table football for example and end on a couple of lines about a secure job being in dealing with the unemployed and the fact that a transformer for a skaletrix is what the singer feels he can aspire to is a very political statement. And also a very funny song.
I hope the songs remain as political as they have always been. Politics is about how we live our everyday lives, not just the behaviour of the twats in power.
26 April 2011
Third Rate Les
As Orwell nicely pointed out, if you define the right-wing as “that which is not desirable”, then of course you can argue against it for as long as you like. So yes, if you define “left wing” as everything that isn’t annoying, pretentious or unfair, then their songs are political, but it’s a pointless, meaningless definition, and I can only assume you also never saw Soviet-era eastern Europe up close.
I also know plenty of lefties who drive Volvos and go to Kitzbuehel in December. My wife’s a proper French communist from a proper council estate (we used to sing the Internationale together) and she buys soup in cartons, not in tins (much to my fury). The lifestyle and the politics are two entirely different things. I’d argue that the worldview in which there should be a saxophone in the corner is as likely to be a groovily left-wing one.
Paintball’s Coming Home as a a shout of political fury against “proto- bourgeois lifestyle”? Hmmm…
15 May 2011
The Black Rat
Pehaps HMHB should write a song about people who over-analyise song lyrics.
30 August 2011
Reforse
I think HMHB would be distraught to be thought of as non political
1 October 2011
Third Rate Les
My original article (which all the comments above refer to) was terrible. It was factually incorrect, hard to read, terribly long-winded and sounded like I was trying to pick a fight with an argument that no-one had ever actually made. I agree with the negative comments above entirely. The replacement which you see now just sets some of the political references against what was going on in the world at the time, which will hopefully atone for this (I certaintly found it interesting to research).
Article replaced at the author’s request – Ed
2 October 2011
Chris The Siteowner
On a related topic, NB57 appeared on BBC Radio Merseyside’s “Pure Musical Sensations” last night, discussing protest songs with Roger Hill. Fascinating insight into his record collection, but although Roger says: “You’ve spent your career making a long protest against the banality of entertainment”, NB57 uses the opportunity to reiterate that he’s in no way a protest singer.
It’s on iPlayer here until 9 October, starting at 33′ 45″. Thanks to Gez for the heads-up.
3 October 2011
Charles Exford
Thanks Chris – an hour and five minutes of truly compulsive listening (don’t be fooled, folks, by the fact that the iPlayer gives an end time of 1:00:00. Nigel is on from 00:33:00 till about 1:38:00).
Mrs E. says she has a programme that can ‘rip’ these things too. Errm, yippee. I think.
3 October 2011
John Burscough
What he said.
5 October 2011
Charles Exford
No need for Mrs. E to rip anything in the end, after somebody on the Yahoo list helpfully posted an mp3 (since deleted, but see further post below – Chris).
Anyway, @ Les, judging by interview remarks, etc, the average song is written anything from 1-3 years before release, so yes it’s clear that NB57 hardly ever refers to contemporary events, but there’s almost no point in comparing an album with the actual events parallel to its release.
For example, you refer to the current government being the background for the current album. But it’s on record that 8 of the 12 songs were written by the time that government had been in power just 3 months, written presumably over the previous two and a half years since CSI was ready in early 2008.
(I’ll cite that as an example of what I mean but it might also be a fascinating exception because, almost unprecedentedly, there is an intriguing reference to Tories and Lib Dems on Tommy Walsh, first performed within 3 months of the Con-Dem coalition).
I’ve been meaning to pick a couple of small holes in the original article for the last 10 months, but wasn’t sure how to do it and at the same time avoid making too many assumptions. “Good effort with the new one – fewer holes and gives me a clearer idea of what I’d like to say. I’ll be back!”
5 October 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Thanx 4 the upload link Exxo. My chief ripper has buggered off to University and try as I might last night I couldn’t hack beyond iPlayer’s paranoia. Need to listen to stuff like this whilst I’m walking the hound and my laptop just won’t fit in my inside pocket.
5 October 2011
Third Rate Les
I’m looking forward to the comments Exxo! The political background isn’t really to suggest a direct infuence on the music (although I can see it looks like that). I just find it interesting to set the release dates in the context of what else was going on at the time. And some of them are relevant – 1993 wasn’t just a Leaden Pall kind of year, it followed a couple of them (it’s why I mentioned the previous year’s shocking general election).
5 October 2011
Steve Kean is Alive,Why?
Third Rate Les,
Just wondering if you too suffered Twosh circa ’87 – just a (QEGS)educated guess based on the Rovers related comments/German tube map?
Recall many happy afternoons on the Blackburn End in those simpler times – think we may have celebrated Garners quadruple vs Sunderland together shortly after returning from the Hadamar German exchange trip?
Anyway may be barking up the wrong tree completely so I’ll stop reminiscing now – L’enfer c’est les Dingles!
18 October 2011
STEVE KEAN IS ALIVE,WHY?
Sorry might have irked some purists by omitting the word ‘endless’ between ‘suffered’ & ‘Twosh’ – a no Rosette situation for Mr Espley for sure.
19 October 2011
Third rate Les in his Burberry fez
Steve Kean – ahhh, Garner’s quadruple against Sunderland! Hadamar! Twosh! That’s good sleuthing. Although I spose German/HMHB/Full Members Cup 87 experts aren’t that many.
19 October 2011
Third Rate Les
So can we have a separate “Twosh / Hadamar / Blackburn Rovers / Peppermint Place” thread then? No, I spose not.
It’s, er, sort of relevant because of course Blackburn are, with Tranmere, two of the four league “Rovers” teams.
19 October 2011
STEVE KEAN IS ALIVE,WHY?
Just you and me then Pete? FMC semi final vs Chelsea as memorable to me as Wembley 92 or Anfield 95 – recent seasons are the ones I have trouble with-probably cos I can’t be arsed any more with the not so beautiful game. No more heroes anymore – oh for a Garner, Sellars or Hendry amonst the current crop of overpaid mercenary no-marks currently propping up the league. Exiled in Glarster so no one gives a toss about football here which is a blessing. Try to get to the midlands gigs when I can – fact I think I may have seen you at Leamington in 2010 but only on way out – do you have a DP away kit perchance? Maybe see you at Bilston if you are going? Sorry to turn thread into Friends Reunited – enjoyed your article btw. Been a fan since purchasing DHSS Again in Blackburn Dixons on cassette – said cassette is still in my current hifi 25 years later, so HMHB have been a constant in a world full of change. Unlike almost anything else in life they seem to get better with age.
20 October 2011
STEVE KEAN IS ALIVE,WHY?
Sorry FMC semi-final obviously not that memorable, as you will of course have spotted my deliberate mistake – Chelsea were our quarter final opponents and Ipswich were the semi-finalists. For some reason the Chelsea game stays with me better – probably cos they had that narky blert Speedie up front. Whatever became of him after he left the Bridge?
20 October 2011
Stu
I was brought up in a very left-leaning socialist household. An impressionable teenager during the winter of discontent, I rebelled strongly against the views of my family and became an ardent Thatcherite (note the past tense). Years later, well into my 20s, I realised she was completely mad (even if I still wonder what would have happened to Britain under prime minister Scargill) and have ever since considered myself as close to the centre politically as it is possible to get. I’ve existed on both sides of the extremes, can see the good and bad in both, and like the middle ground.
I say this to qualify my bland remark that in the 25+ years that I’ve been listening to HMHB, I have never heard a single line in a single song that I honestly thought was political.
Love the article, thank you. Trips down Memory Lane get more and more interesting as time flies by, wholly regardless of whether or not one is driving a train!
1 November 2011
Third rate Les in his Burberry fez
Chelsea was indeed the quarter, and is also the one I really remember too – singing “Keeley’s gonna get ya” at Speedie (which he promptly did) and then singing some appalingly racist anti-Scots song at him too (to the tune of “I’d rather be a hammer than a nail”), which was funny as Don McKay was in the crowd about to take over and lead us to glory. The semi was good with a great pitch invasion over those red iron fences but I don’t remember any of it apart from whistling for the last ten minutes.
I went to every leg of the FMC too – there was one against Oxford and it was so foggy you couldn’t actually see the goal at the Darwen end, you just heard every time Vince O’Keefe let in another soft one. I can’t really be bothered with it much these days although I try and take my old man once or twice a season.
I do indeed have a DPAK with my name on the back and the number 40 (a present from Jeff Dreadnought, of these parts) so it was probably me. Look forward to seeing you again!
1 November 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
The comments on this thread appear to be taking part in a game of HMHB tennis where a volley of ‘they’re not political’ is met by a lob of ‘they bloody well are you know’, interspersed by audience murmurings and mutterings, not always with their minds on the game. (I particularly like comment 10 by Bobo, where is he these days?)
Anyway, to return Stu’s latest forehand down the line ‘I have never heard a single line in a single song that I honestly thought was political’, I offer a two handed backhand. What about Split Single with Happy Lounge Labelmates? A critique of the English class system if ever I heard one. The privilege of the Barbour wearing, book launch attending, gite borrowing classes compared to the poverty of living on state benefits where support and empathy are in short supply. Don’t miss the irony of I ‘blew’ my giro on debts and essentials or the anger of ‘I asked for water, they sent me a final demand’. If those are not political statements then I’m not sure what are. Perhaps if Billy Bragg had sung them then we’d be happier with the label ‘political’?
1 November 2011
Third rate Les in his Burberry fez
There are two counters to that, Vendor:
One, that when he’s making wry observations about people, are they really “critiques”? I’d argue that making fun of people in Barbours is no more a critique than making fun of people who like their hand-held pumps. Why is that “political”?
Secondly, what exactly is “political” about that wonderful line about giros? We all know what it’s like to be skint, and what it’s like to get harangued by utilities. Claiming it as a protest song is just not right.
So you’re essentially saying that complaining about crapness in life is a political statement. As George Orwell said, you don’t get far combatting fascism by simply defining it as “that which is not desirable”.
1 November 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Nice backhand slice Les. However, I don’t think the last verse is just complaining about crapness at all. It references some typical broadsides aimed at the (non)-working class by unsympathetic Daily Mail reader types. That people on benefits waste their government handouts when in actual fact most are spent on the necessities of life and that the absolute basics which all humanity should be entitled to as a right often comes with strings attached or at a price. I’m not claiming that it’s a protest song (Alternative Ulster it ain’t), but I do consider its sentiments to be political.
1 November 2011
Third rate Les in his Burberry fez
Nice volley there Vendor.
Personally I don’t see that objecting to poverty is a political viewpoint; my own objections to socialism are precisely from seeing it generate the kind of grim despair described so well here.
However, you make your shot well and it’s clear that these are sentiments more likely to be expressed by a lefty than a Daily Mail reader (although Mrs Les is a Mail-reading Communist). You overstate your case though by claiming the “final demand” line as a campaign for entitlement to free water utilities. Hawkeye gives it “in” as it just nicked the baseline.
2 November 2011
Vendor of Quack Nostrums
Deuce?
2 November 2011
John Burscough
New balls please.
3 November 2011
Flipper the Guinea Gap Dolphin
These balls are taking a long time; that’s three months now. A Halex Three-Star would have been much quicker.
9 February 2012
John Kelly
A really poignant lyric is :
“She died with her telly on, eighty-seven and confused
With not enough hospital beds ‘cos all the money’s been used
On the end of the century party preparations
And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican”
This really strikes a chord with me, about the demise of family life in Great Britain today.
25 February 2012
SPENCER THE HALFWIT
I saw it not so much as a comment on the modern family, more as a comment on the irony that millions of pounds are spent on something which is less than urgent when the same government will have been bleating about how short of money they were for the likes of the NHS. Unfortunately as the appropriate technology improves, events that attract that sort of activity will only become bigger and more spectacular, and, even in relative terms, more expensive. After all, I can’t imagine that the organisers of any Olympics, or Presidential inauguration, or royal event, would be prepared for theirs to be less memorable than the last one. It’s been more than ten years since that lyric and it’s only going to become more relevant.
25 February 2012
Third Rate Les
Governments of all political persuasions have been pissing away public money on self-aggrandising grand works since governments have existed. It’s what they do. I agree that one is a political statement, if anything directed at New Labour at a time when they were still very popular and spending public money at record rates.
25 February 2012
Charles Exford
Anyone got a current working link to a download of the Radio Merseyside programme?
13 September 2012
Chris The Siteowner
Here we go folks – and thanks Vendor – with the edited version of Nigel’s appearance on Roger Hill’s BBC Radio Merseyside alternative music show, Pure Musical Sensations, 2 October 2011, discussing protest songs. I guess that at over 35 minutes of speech, it’s by far the most any of us have ever heard of NB57.
The music has been removed to avoid any copyright, er, protests, but our YouTube maestro Acidic Regulator has provided a “set list” of the songs under discussion.
Nigel Blackwell on protest songs.
18 November 2012
Stuart
I’ve always considered myself a complainer and not a protester. Having been a HMHB fan since the first album, it was quite a moment for me to see that interview with Nigel where he said more or less the same thing. It’s the nearest I shall come to greatness!
The fact that Nigel considers himself a complainer and not a protester speaks volumes to me. It explains why there are mild digs at politicians and politics in general (where, as someone suggested above, he’s obviously a bit wary of anything right of centre) but very very clear moans at all sorts of things that annoy many or most of us without being in any way political.
8 December 2012
paul f
I see from the twitter feed that the new deputy-PM is a fan. I suppose after Julie Burchill, anything became possible.
12 June 2017
GOK WAN ACOLYTE
I thought it was fairly well known that Damian Green was a fan of the band. I don’t in any way support his politics but I don’t see any reason why he can’t or shouldn’t like HMHB.
12 June 2017
EXXO
While I think it’s unfortunate that a Tory swine can claim to be an HMHB fan, least all one who donned his DPAK while presiding over this government’s evil campaign against the disabled, it’s kind of a bit weird that his HMHB fandom gives him a bit of benefit of the doubt lately on this one silly and comparatively trivial issue of porn on a computer. If he’s intelligent enough – in one sense – to appreciate HMHB, then surely he’s not that stupid? It reminds me of wanting Thatcher to be properly overthrown by the riots in 1990 and not cleverly moved to one side… I don’t want this utter, utter bastard to be sacked over porn but over driving people to poverty and despair.
1 December 2017
hendrix-tattoo
Every man and his dog had access to Damian Green’s laptop password. Coincidentally ‘Every Man and his Dog’ was one of the film titles found by the police on his laptop,,,
4 December 2017
cat HEAD
Discovering that Damian Green is a fan (a pretty big fan, alas — cunt only has a dukla prague) is like discovering that Callaghan and Thatcher were pretty big Blackstuff fans.
7 December 2017
CHARLES EXFORD
FAO Damian Green. As I’m sure the wonderful Frank e. Field has been jumping up and down and telling you for years, this is what life is like in Nigel Blackwell’s Birkenhead.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/welfare/news/91225/watch-tory-mp-moved-tears-frank-field-tells-trying-talk
7 December 2017
Chris The Siteowner
That’s my MP. I’ve spent several occasions down in the pub with her, and she’s absolutely one of the good guys. If politics wasn’t so f***ing tribal, people might actually notice that she’s doing brilliant work and yet, yes, is a Tory.
7 December 2017
cat HEAD
Why is she a tory then mate?
(In case that wasn’t being ironic, my point is made. Correspondence closed on my part – CtSO)
8 December 2017
Cream cheese and chives
Tribalism is a big issue . A bigger one is the complete disconnect between MPs and ‘normal’ people. Putting to one side for a moment those without secure housing, mortgages etc, the abiding memory I have of the MPs’ expenses scandal was not duck moats and all that, it was an MP(possibly Labour) saying that he had continued claiming a mortgage because he did not know whether he had paid off his mortgage or not. He couldn’t remember.For people with a mortgage, I think paying it off is the original radioactive red letter day. That is a big disconnect between an MP and those who elected him/her. How on earth is he/she going to connect with the unemployed, poverty stricken, food bank reliant etc etc?
How reflective of society is Parliament now? Less so than for decades.At the last count, I think it was less than 20 MPs who had ever done a manual job. I used to work with one of them in another life. He was always a good lad, very sound and very true to his upbringing. He talks now like something from The Thick of It-regurgitating a party line that says very little other than ‘my dad is bigger than your dad’. He’s probably a good constituency MP but suspect his grasp on his roots has been inevitably loosened by media training and priming.
Sadly, looking at the clip there are probably less than twenty MPs in the chamber. The story was covered in the Guardian but I would guess it got few column inches elsewhere and probably wouldn’t make the news because of the Brexit malarkey and the royal wedding. The issues Frank Field and Heidi whatsit discuss ARE the real political ones and they are the ones that are ignored. There has been a silent agreement in the UK for a long time that the poor/people at the bottom / downtrodden /underclasses / shirking scum ( choose term to reflect your view) are just there and will always be there. They are ‘not one of us’ and are, therefore, last to benefit, first to suffer at the hands of much of the policy introduced.
I’m not a Tory but once you go the way of all Tories bad, all Labour good you are on very dodgy ground. It’s like saying that you don’t listen to music made by anyone with a beard. To be fair, I think many of us followed that rule in the late 70s and now have record collections that are positively bewhiskered.
As for HMHB being political? Probably. In the way that almost everything was back then. There was a great article a few years back that tried to explain Wham! as a political rant about young people (guns?) sticking two fingers up at the Establishment and just having a good time. Not sure how they funded those trips to Club Tropicana on benefits though. Even then GM was challenging social taboos apparently.
I have always hated tennis because that is a game that you can’t excel at without money. Political sports? There’s something to get your teeth into. UEFA’s horlicks of a Pan EuroEuros is a case in point. When questioned about supporters and travel costs, they helpfully suggested low budget airlines. Why does Wembley get extra games over Cardiff? Methinks corporate potential at Wembley outweighs Wales’ capital significantly. Football-the people’s game? In much the same way as polo.
Crikey. I only started this while the rain passed and now it’s blinking snowing.
8 December 2017
CHARLES EXFORD
If you’re comfortable enough not to have to hate the tories and their media, or to forget what they’ve done over generations, lucky you. Allen made a “brave” speech against some details of the government’s onslaught on the underprivileged, and then not so bravely voted for the tribe as ever. Sounds like she should be Cropredy rather than Cornbury.
Which, if you listen properly to the two key moments of the Radio Merseyside doc, brings us to the reason HMHB can’t be ‘political’ – because although it’s fairly obvious Nigel’s instincts are well to the left – they feel it would be hypocritical to sing about it without doing much about it – and they know they wouldn’t be able to do the latter, especially when you’ve spent a lifetime railing against celebrity posturing.
8 December 2017
CHARLES EXFORD
I’ll just clarify and expand the last couple of clauses there, with something like
“and they know they aren’t able to do the latter. If you can only manage to play enough gigs per year to just about keep the wolf from the door, and can’t even deal with all the fuss of local gigs, and you also hate having to say no, then you can’t add benefits for the striking beekeepers to your schedule, and believe me you do get asked to do hundreds of suchlike things. If you don’t like going on big platforms you aren’t going to start platforming. Especially when you’ve spent a lifetime railing against celebrity posturing.”
8 December 2017
CHARLES EXFORD
It’s timely that Tommy ‘Reckless’ Mackay of the mighty ‘Half Mac Half Biscuit’ (or something like that) should pop up in the #hmhb twitter feed today. His daily skit on the Daily Reckless – today it’s ‘David Davis Eyes’ about Britshit – yesterday it was ‘Bigmouth Strikes again’ about Trump trying to start WW3 – gives us a good insight into what HMHB are careful not to do. Not because Tommy doesn’t do a great job – he does – he should be poached by BBC R4 and quit the day job (Liz Kershaw doesn’t get any sharper with age, does she though?), but because they would sound trite and cos they don’t want to have to start going on marches. Neil has a Barbour to wax.
8 December 2017
Phyllis Triggs
Keeping it tribal is a simple and effective way of keeping it controlled and predictable. Once you’ve picked a team and chosen a narrative they know what colour shirts to sell you and which stories to tell you. God forbid should we choose instead to reject what’s offered and channel our energies into a search for alternatives.
@Cat Head – Damien Green is not worthy of the Dukla Prague. I take solace in the hope/thought that his alleged enthusiasm for other web-based activities has prevented him from discovering this site – I hate to think of it being sullied by his presence. Were Thatcher and Callaghan really fans of Boys From The Blackstuff or did you just make that up as a supreme example of cognitive dissonance? It works – my brain is now completely fried!
@Exxo – Intelligent Damien Green may be, but since when has cleverness stopped people (especially politicians!) doing stupid things? However I do wonder if someone with a grudge has done the cyber equivalent of ringing up the speaking clock in Australia and then leaving the phone off the hook? As for his fandom, I can see how he could appreciate the lyrics on an intellectual or funny ha ha level and he may even have made an emotional connection, but I’d wager, a very limited one – wistfulness, nostalgia – and strictly within the confines of his own experience because, being completely devoid of empathy (as evidenced by his role in the DWP) it will be impossible for him to engage fully with the songs. I can just imagine him guffawing at a line like “I asked for water they sent me a final demand” but he will never get, that despite the humour, it’s deadly serious.
As for Chris’s MP, she may be one of the good ones but to align herself within the Tory party and then weep when she’s confronted with the results of its policies shows a naivety beyond my comprehension. To quote Mr Dylan:
“Take the rag away from your face,
Now ain’t the time for your tears”
8 December 2017
CHARLES EXFORD
Top voting Heido! Maybe she’s been been stung by this thread and is determined to show us she’s not as tribal as we are. She was very outspoken about the sell-out to the DUP in the summer and so I did enjoy the symbolism of the number of Tories voting against the govt. being more or less equal to the DUP.
14 December 2017
EXXO
I had an interesting pub conversation with our Keith off ‘ere recently about what is and isn’t ‘political’ about HMHB, in different senses of the word. We agonised about how someone like Damian Green, who presided at the DWP over such draconian cuts in welfare, disability benefit, etc, could ever consider himself a HMHB fan, when such a significant part of the HMHB output is so embedded in the plight of the long-term unemployed, etc. Does the man who dismissed I Daniel Blake as “a work of fiction” think that A Country Practice, Soft Verges, etc are “works of fiction”? When he wears his Dukla Prague away kit, is it out of nostalgia for those subbuteo days or in celebration that he got the plum job of handing fewer and fewer people their giro, every two weeks? Unemployment’s falling in the Chigley end of town, he loved to boast, because every month fewer and fewer people are allowed to claim, and all these zero hours contracts are perfect for ticking all our boxes.
I challenged Keith with the vague proposition, amongst many vague propositions, that because of some hints of “small-c conservatism” in some of the grumpy-old-man songs, you could imagine many grumpy old men of all shades of opinions finding solace and validation in HMHB. I reckoned you could easily be stood next to someone at a HMHB gig who had quite a nasty, intolerant mentality – someone who re-tweets stuff by Katy Hopkins (despair). I gave him an example from Twitter of a chap who tweets as a massive HMHB fan, but has used that medium to post some pretty hard-to-stomach, intolerant right-wing stuff on other issues. And I’ve stood next to him at gigs. Keith was surprised.
Lines like, for example, “is your child hyperactive, or is he perhaps a twat?” are hilarious to us all, a demolition of much excuse-making by useless parents, shit dads and Facebook mums. But are such apparent sentiments also an attractant for those who would demolish anything “PC”? Among many other examples, could lines in A Country Practice be taken as trans-phobic? Could the bludgeoning of chartist demonstrators by a letter-writer in a piss-take song like Letters Sent be mistaken as a right-wing stance? Could the whole of Breaking News, where the ‘voice’ does not seem to be an ironic one, be taken as a bit, well a bit Daily Mail – well, it would certainly be Mail’s favourite HMHB song, would it not? Could Every Time a Bell Rings be a taken as a rallying call against the liberal leftie lifestyle, as perhaps the likes of Orme Ascent could be taken as a rant against a pretentious multicultural outlook? You can see why our right-winger, who is generally seen off to that side at gigs, might enjoy those sentiments.
Which is why it’s not been a complete surprise to hear about the worrying influx of intolerance on the HMHB AS Facebook page in recent days. These are divisive times. Passing the Extinction Rebellion protests in our cities last week, no doubt some of us were “good for you” for trying to get climate change up the media and political agenda, some others were irritated at being delayed. It’s up to you. But I hope no HMHB fan would ever shout “get a job” at anyone, as some passers-by did then (and certainly not to a group of young people who mostly had jobs – perhaps drama teachers who listen to Bjork). Perhaps it’s inevitable that on the HMHB AS Facebook page, which has by all accounts has started to consist mainly of grumpy old men citicising the spelling on signs, some members who had attended the Blue Dot festival last week posted piss-takes afterwards of the language and the environmental agenda of the Extinction Rebellion generation. At that festival, the ER climate change protestors had briefly (and co-operatively) invaded the stage with the support of performer Kate Tempest, and had posted signs advertising their “non-violent direct action workshops”. Our HMHB facebook friends clearly thought that all this would be entirely risible to all their fellow HMHB fans, more risible even than their attendance at the Blue Dot festival (I may be wrong, but I imagine a similar crowd to Elbow in Delamere).
Worrying and divisive times. It’s surely inevitable that there will be piss-taking of Boris Johnson on an intelligent website that celebrates satire. But is it appropriate that in response, a member of an extremist hate-speech group is allowed to repost a video from the Facebook page of that group (whose slogan, cleverly, is “Against all Extremism”). Is it right that it’s allowed to stay there and that anyone who disagrees is called a “Commie”? The perpetrator has the cheek meanwhile to call for “all party political subject matter to be removed from a HMHB page”. That may well have to become the policy of the group, who knows?
I don’t use Facebook actively myself, where hell is other people and you are only ever a few clicks from the sewer, except occasionally anonymously to find out about certain events that are publicised only on there. But I would call on those of you who do use that page to consider doing what you can to defend it, and the good name of HMHB, against intolerance and in particular any out-and-out fascists. Not by engaging the moron responsible, but for example can the moderator of the page be messaged and urged to delete the fascist stuff and ban the perpetrator? I hasten to add that the video clip itself is a relatively harmless and crappily-made little mock-up of “Boris Johnson” slide-tackling taking the base from under an EU official with a mumbled jingoistic postscript … but it’s the well-known hate-speech group it’s come from that is worrying.
Nigel is on record that HMHB are not a protest group – it’s just mainly moaning, he claims, anxious to avoid any hint of the posturing by other artistes that he piss-takes so mercilessly. I would not interpret much of their work at all politically. When Nigel’s mates launched a group called ‘Tranmere Rovers Supporters Against Fascism’ a few years back, in response to the rise of the EDL, etc., I remember him saying he went to their launch party for the Ska DJ and especially the free scran. Excellent sausages, he said. . . . But he was there.
26 July 2019
Lord leominsTer
At a time when institutional antisemitism within the Labour Party is in the news I wish to ask what others think about the one lyric in the HMHB songbook that makes me feel uncomfortable: “I’ve even been to look for Jim Rosenthal Found him on his knees at the Wailing Wall”. To me, that sounds more sinister than a mere ‘dig’ at a deserving celeb target. The sentiment, as I interpret it, stands out as being incongruent with HMHB values. I’ve just read through the comments on the Bob Wilson lyrics page and on this Class Rant page but there are no comments, so far as I can see, regarding this matter. Has this subject been discussed elsewhere on this site? I am genuinely interested to learn how others interpret this lyric; I’m not trying to make a point.
26 July 2019
Lord leominster
I have just found the J is for Jim Rosenthal page. I’m none the wiser.
26 July 2019
EXXO
The song pokes no fun at anything or anyone else other than the protagonist’s mystification at someone so utterly lacking in presence and charisma as Bob Wilson being chosen for a role for which he was utterly unsuited.
The song implies that Rosethal would have been better suited to the role, knows it, and, like the singer and the listeners, Jim himself laments the choice of Wilson. We are united, we are as one, we sympathise with Rosethal’s lamentations. His lamenting it in the most cliched way at the remains of the holiest shrine of his faith is a good rhyme and very funny, and if anything you could argue it says “here’s a Jewish person unjustly overlooked in favour of this schmuck deckchair attendant.” In the end, all the places are just there for remarkably funny rhymes.
All religion, especially religious authority figures, gets the piss taken mercilessly and relentlessly throughout HMHB, but this is not particularly an example of that.
The other obvious example of an utterly unsuited football anchorman from the same era was of course John Barnes, but there’s no way Mr. B would ever have gone there, for various reasons that could have led to misunderstanding. Bob Wilson is a very easy target, but to me BWA undoubtedly has the highest humour quotient in the entire Biscuit canon when placed in a ratio with easiness of target.
Total genius (but obviously not as good as R&RiFoBW).
26 July 2019
Phyllis Triggs
@Lord Leominster it’s all about the rhyme – best I can/Kazakhstan/understand/anchorman, Kent,Gwent,Senegal/Rosenthal/Wailing Wall – which fairly skips along. Rosenthal’s a Jewish name. The Wailing Wall’s a Jewish holy place. What’s anti semitic about putting the two together? (Unless its the term ‘Wailing Wall’ you’re objecting to rather than ‘Western Wall’?)There’s even a meeting of minds between Rosenthal and the singer – on finding Rosenthal crying “Bob Wilson, anchorman” I get the feeling that our singer would sink down on his knees next to him, put an arm round his shoulder and say “Yeah mate, me too”. No anti-semitism here! Look at the overall vibe of the song – there’s no hint of nastiness. I think this is one of the most joyous and uplifting of HMHB’s songs. There’s also a simplicity/an innocence to it which is totally at odds with any concerns/accusations of anti-semitism.
26 July 2019
Lord leominster
Thanks Exxo and Phyllis. I was half expecting a volley of abuse for being over sensitive so I am relieved to receive two measured and reasoned replies. After posting I reflected that Christianity and Christians come in for plenty of mockery but always from what feels to me to be a Christian’s perspective. I saw Jesus but he didn’t see me being one of my favourite lines ever. To clarify, my concern was that the dig was at someone purely because of their religious belief or culture, bearing in mind that I do seem to remember Jim Rosenthal having been the victim of racial slurs from comedians, the press and the like. But the point that had sailed completely over my head like the Goodyear airship was that Jim Rosenthal should have been the anchorman (italics from ‘Jim’). The line makes perfect sense to me now. I don’t disagree with the anything you have said about the song. It’s wonderful and had received many votes from me throughout Lux Familiar. I can enjoy it all the more now. Thank you.
27 July 2019
The harbinger of nothing
The only line I really don’t like is about being disappointed that Bette Midler doesn’t have cancer. I’m glad that line gets changed when played live.
27 July 2019
Phyllis Triggs
@Exxo (comment 60) terrific post – lots of food for thought there.
It’s entirely possible that someone like Damian Green can consider himself to be a fan of the band (distasteful as that is to the rest of us) – nostalgia, humour, clever lyrics will all draw him in but I reckon its likely he’s blind to the ‘political’ aspect of the songs, and, (just to annoy Jacob Rees Mogg) because HMHB aren’t ‘overtly political’ in the way that say, Billy Bragg is, they let him get away with it (hey, Damian Green’s not their responsibility!)
Once a song’s written, recorded, released – that’s not it’s end, that’s it’s beginning! Out of its creators hands it takes on a life of its own interacting with us the listeners. How will we react? Each of us brings our own experience to a song. We’re all capable of reading into it things that aren’t there and of not seeing things that are. Creators must despair!
27 July 2019
Alice van der meer
Hang on folks, this in the internet, we should be indulging in trolling and abuse, not being serious and sensible!
It is, however, rather nice to come across a civilised oasis where we can discuss these things without wanting to punch someone across the internet. Especially when they make their point as cogently as Phyllis does.
27 July 2019
EXXO
Great points, Lou. Creators must sometimes despair. Which brings to mind bands in the 70’s and early 80’s who had to write songs or do speeches to tell Nazi punks to eff off, etc.
I don’t think HMHB do despair, though. They seem to have decided after the initial maelstrom of 1986 to just put the songs out there and shut up about it. If Mr. B despared about the lyrics, being misunderstood, for example, he’d have had them all printed on the CDs and done copious notes about them.
@Leo – “from a Christian’s perspective”, rather than from a background immersed in Christianity, which has since ben rejected? You’re certainly not the only one to make that (mis-) interpretation, but I’d like to hear your reasoning.
28 July 2019
Lord leominster
Exxo, thanks for taking the trouble to reply and put me straight on these points. I guess I’m just wrong again but even so the voice speaks from a position of understanding and self awareness which gives it authority. I feel a bit of a twit for not recognising the very obvious link between Wilson and Rosenthal. Without that link the lyric sounded like the non sequitur ‘Neil Morrissey’s a knobhead’ in Bottleneck. To my eternal shame and regret anything HMHB post nineteen eighties is still new to me. I only rediscovered HMHB around six months ago. I’m trying not to display bad wool behaviour but inevitably failing. Even using the phrase bad wool in this context is bad wool behaviour . I need a little lie down.
28 July 2019
Transit full of keith
Interesting thread this. Some of the Biscuit lyrical landscape seems to come from the same place as some of the Brexit vote – small towns, post-industrial, disdain for middle-class London elites, etc. And of course, you wouldn’t be able to guess from the songs which side of that divide NB was on, (although I can’t imagine anything but disdain for the likes of Farage and Johnson). The latest album is silent on the subject, though ETABR is suggestive: obviously coffee-bean couple voted Remain, but the narrator might have voted either way, or none. To try to guess a position from it would be to miss the point though.
But… anyone who starts detecting Toryism in the hints of nostalgia – let alone supposes that, because they’re a band rooted in football culture, they would somehow have any sympathy with an organised group of far right racists who align themselves, in their name, with the same culture – is very wide of the mark, surely.
I’d agree with Exxo that NB’s politics seem, from a few hints in a few songs and interviews, more left-wing than not, but obviously very sceptical. Where anything is said directly it seems to be more community-minded, about the funding of libraries and the NHS, than anything very ideological. But there’s this total aversion to taking explicit stands, because if you go down that road, it would presumably become harder to rip the piss out of everything – or to find lyrical gold in the ‘trivial’ stuff others don’t notice or sing about.
Sometimes it reminds me a bit of Viz comic in its late 80s heyday: scattergun targets, often politically incorrect, lacerating about pretentiousness, and peopled by the improbable doings of D-list celebrities, local paper letter-writers, etc. There’s politics in it, but it’s part of a much richer scene.
29 July 2019
EXXO
I’d agree with nearly all of that Keith, but not the main reason for the aversion to taking explicit stands. I think there are all kinds of reasons, but probably the main one was more than hinted at in the Radio Merseyside ‘protest songs’ interview – that if you take stands you’re a hypocrite if you don’t do much about them, and (I paraphrase from memory) “we’re not much good at doing anything about things…”
For example, those in music who take an explicit political stance and aren’t hypocrites have to work around twice as hard. In effect, it’s like one gig for yourself and one gig or festival for someone’s cause. But then you can never completely get away from accusations that you’re making money yourself on the back of the causes, because of the fame and kudos accrued. Such were the themes and accusations of every edition of the NME, Sounds and Melody Maker when HMHB burst onto an “alternative music scene” dominated politically by Red Wedge, etc., and our lads immediately distanced themselves from it – even sarcastically praising Thatcher for enabling the band to come into existence.
@Lord Leo: I’ve enough experience of newbie/oldbie/uberfan/bad wool/good wool situations on other forums in other contexts to feel very awkward about the newbie awkwardness I seem to have made you feel there. Apologies. I was actually looking forward to a discussion with you and maybe others about all that, but maybe that’s for another thread. Anyway you certainly aren’t a bad wool in this context, because a really postive sort of Catch-22 usually applies: you can’t be a badwool if you act with the humble awareness that you are, in some sense, a wool. Meanwhile there are certainly a number of bad wools on that facebook page.
29 July 2019
lord leominster
Thanks, Exxo. No apology needed as you have been very generous to this newbie. I would be pleased to explore and discuss the religious aspects of the HMHB songbook. I thought that I saw a religion of HMHB thread (in a similar vein to this Class Rant one) when I first found this website but I can’t see it now, or perhaps it was elsewhere. Religion is a very strong theme that runs right from the first song on the first album. There’s even an album called Godcore, so it’s difficult to ignore. But let’s save that discussion for another time. I like and agree with your Catch-22 analysis of woolliness. I wouldn’t know about BookFace or Chitter as I’ve never participated (at any level) and I almost certainly never will. That doesn’t make me a sensitive outsider, I’m just not particularly interested in what most people have to say about themselves.
29 July 2019
EXXO
Yes, there was an article by Nathan Richardson with a link at the top of the ‘lists’ thread. It has disappeared. I can’t remember to what extent it was misguided/wishful thinking on the author’s part – like I say, you wouldn’t be the only one. In terms of lists of references, there are also comments 91-98 in that “lists” thread.
Don’t think I can resist quipping that the title Cammell Laird Social Club does not indicate that the band are shipbuilders, etc. – but like I say I don’t want to be too much of a nasty, sarcastic know-it-all.
(Note: Nathan asked for the article to be removed some time back; he didn’t think it was up to scratch – CtSO)
29 July 2019
lord leominster
That brings me neatly to my next important theme that must be explored and understood – social clubs (there’s only 2 that I can think of and you just mentioned one of them).
29 July 2019
hendrix-tattoo
Phyllis Triggs is a National Treasure….
29 July 2019